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Neuron, Myelin and a Ionic Gun

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  • #16
    Here is a little animation of the ionic gun.

    [flash]http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/decay.swf[/flash]

    Ionic Gun

    Of course, the dimensions are very enlarged, emphasizing the phenomenon.
    The myelin segment is 150/200 longer than a node. :embarasse
    Last edited by bernard; 30-06-2006, 08:31 AM.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
    We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

    Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
    If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    bernard

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Prof I TASAKI
      Conduction of the nerve impulse in myelinated fibers is saltatory with respect to space but not, in general, with respect to time.
      They simply discarded the problem!
      The problem was too complex in 1938 to be solved. They didn't searched another possible explanation to the phenomenon that was contradictory with the emerging theories.
      Attached Files
      Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
      We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

      Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
      If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
      bernard

      Comment


      • #18
        The propagation is similar to an explosion (similar but not identical).
        An explosion creates a pressure wave that is propagated. This wave is a virtual explosion (you ear the sound only)
        Of course, in the AP, the major difference is that the phenomenon is much slower than the wave. It is the contrary that exists during an exploding.

        [flash]http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/decay_03.swf[/flash]

        @ Cory.
        If you put a tube looking at the explosion, you have more chance to ear it in good conditions. You direct the sound to you ear. Myelin directs the wave to the next node.
        Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
        We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

        Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
        If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
        bernard

        Comment


        • #19
          Nerves Transmit Sound, Not Electricity


          Did I said that some time ago ? :angel:

          I wrote a email to Thomas.
          Last edited by bernard; 10-05-2007, 07:28 AM.
          Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
          We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

          Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
          If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
          bernard

          Comment


          • #20
            Hey Bernard, as I recall you said it couldn't be electrical. Did you say it was sound though? I thought you were thinking about solitons at the time.
            So, anesthetic is like putting chemical ear plugs into a patient's nervous system.. hmnn. Interesting.
            Diane
            www.dermoneuromodulation.com
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            "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

            “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

            “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

            "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

            "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

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            • #21
              Diane,

              Yes, I said it couldn't be electrical (but seen as). This thread shows the passive component of transmission that enhances its speed. I used a term of physical wave and sound is a physical wave. The active part seems ionic and quite solitonic.
              Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
              We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

              Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
              If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
              bernard

              Comment


              • #22
                Ah. I'm finally starting to get your drift on this Bernard - you're ahead of the pack.
                Diane
                www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                @PainPhysiosCan
                WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                @WCPTPTPN
                Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                @dfjpt
                SomaSimple on Facebook
                @somasimple

                "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                Comment


                • #23
                  Here's a little news piece on general cellular systems "noise" that may be relevant.
                  Diane
                  www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                  SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                  HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                  Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                  Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                  Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                  @PainPhysiosCan
                  WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                  @WCPTPTPN
                  Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                  @dfjpt
                  SomaSimple on Facebook
                  @somasimple

                  "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                  “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                  “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                  "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                  "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Diane,

                    It is a good find but unfortunately from the "opposite" side.
                    Ions when they move from one side of the membrane to the other may be heard as electrical noises. These noises reflect real physical moves and not electronic flux in circuits.
                    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
                    We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

                    Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
                    If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
                    bernard

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Here's a link to many full text articles on the subject. See publications.
                      "I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        http://www.somasimple.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=19

                        But sound in the air is transmitted with an approximated speed of 330ms-1 and much more in water.

                        Nerve transmit "the wave" under 200 ms-1

                        It can't be sound. The wave is physical/mechanical but slower. It is a sustained wave (by ions channels).
                        Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
                        We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

                        Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
                        If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
                        bernard

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          There is a discussion about this subject on another (scientific) forum.
                          Action Of Nerves Is Based On Sound Pulses, Anesthetics Resea

                          ps: I'm a novice.
                          Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
                          We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

                          Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
                          If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
                          bernard

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Very cool Bernard. It's an interesting conversation!
                            Diane
                            www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                            SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                            HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                            Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                            Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                            Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                            @PainPhysiosCan
                            WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                            @WCPTPTPN
                            Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                            @dfjpt
                            SomaSimple on Facebook
                            @somasimple

                            "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                            “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                            “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                            "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                            "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                            Comment

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