Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Atomic Pinballs

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Ref Atomic Pinballs

    Hi Somasimplers,

    I begin a thread about basic knowledge about ions and particles motion:
    (ions are moved in action potential, and are exchanged between cells).

    1/ negative loves positive.

    [flash]http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic.swf[/flash]

    http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic.swf

    the attractive force augments as the distance decreases (there is an acceleration).
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
    We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

    Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
    If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    bernard

  • #2
    Hi Somasimplers,

    I begin a thread about basic knowledge about ions and particles motion:
    (ions are moved in action potential, and are exchanged between cells).

    2/ negativists can't stay together.

    [flash]http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic1.swf[/flash]

    http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic1.swf

    the repulsive force decreases as the distance increases (there is an deceleration).
    Last edited by bernard; 12-10-2005, 09:19 AM. Reason: number
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
    We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

    Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
    If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    bernard

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Somasimplers,

      I begin a thread about basic knowledge about ions and particles motion:
      (ions are moved in action potential, and are exchanged between cells).

      3/ Optimistics can't stay together, too.

      [flash]http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic2.swf[/flash]

      http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic2.swf

      the repulsive force decreases as the distance increases (there is an deceleration).
      Last edited by bernard; 12-10-2005, 09:19 AM. Reason: number
      Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
      We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

      Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
      If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
      bernard

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Somasimplers,


        4/ little things move more than big ones.

        [flash]http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic3.swf[/flash]

        http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic3.swf

        the attractive force increases as the distance decreases (there is an aceceleration) but speed depends of the charge and its shape.
        A large charge molecule moves more slowly than a tiny one. A more charged particle attracts/repulses more than a less charged one.
        Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
        We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

        Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
        If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
        bernard

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Somasimplers,


          5/ Immobile but active.

          [flash]http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic4.swf[/flash]

          http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic4.swf

          the attractive force increases as the distance decreases (there is an aceceleration) but speed depends of the charge and its shape.
          A large charge fixed molecule doesn't move but its strength remains. A more charged particle attracts/repulses more than a less charged one.
          Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
          We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

          Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
          If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
          bernard

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Somasimplers,


            6/ hidden forces exist.

            [flash]http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic5.swf[/flash]

            http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic5.swf

            the attractive force increases as the distance decreases (there is an aceceleration) but speed depends of the charge and its shape.
            A large charge fixed molecule doesn't move but its strength remains. A more charged particle attracts/repulses more than a less charged one.
            The attraction is effective even if a barrier is put between the charges.

            End of basic movements.
            Now it will be more interesting?
            Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
            We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

            Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
            If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
            bernard

            Comment


            • #7
              SomaSimplers,

              The last "figure" is existing in our body.
              Where do we met it?
              Some positive charges separated from fixed negative ones, by a thin layer?
              Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
              We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

              Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
              If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
              bernard

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Somasimplers,

                7/ positive ions want to come in.

                [flash]http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic6.swf[/flash]

                http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic6.swf

                Diane (and others)

                This one is the first step of three that are important (vital).
                You may love them since I figured an axon cut-away (very simplified).

                The core is negative and we know that embedded negative ions are quite immobile. positive charges/ions are seeing the negative one though the layer/membrane and thus see the membrane as negative.
                Positive charges/ions want to go inside the axon and the force that drives this urges is one of the most powerfull ones.

                This first step is a beginning of an automatic flow.
                Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
                We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

                Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
                If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
                bernard

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Somasimplers,

                  8/ positive ions want, now, to come out.

                  [flash]http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic7.swf[/flash]

                  http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic7.swf

                  This one is the second step of three that are important (vital).
                  Once ions cross the barrier via ions channels, things change drammatically. When the internal side becomes positive and positive charges want to go outside because the repulsive forces.

                  This second step is a spike of an action potential.
                  Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
                  We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

                  Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
                  If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
                  bernard

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Somasimplers,

                    9/ And the cycle continues.

                    [flash]http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic8.swf[/flash]

                    http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic8.swf

                    This one is the third step of three that are important (vital).
                    This passive step (in fact the only active) is under the dominance of ATP and Na/K pumps.

                    This third step is the recovery phase of an action potential (return to resting potential).
                    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
                    We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

                    Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
                    If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
                    bernard

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hmmm,

                      I forgot to bring a scientific explanation of this behaviour:
                      It is the Gauss' Law. This law is an extension of the Coulomb's law

                      It is extraordinary that none of the actual theories, about action potential, never tell us a word about them!
                      Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
                      We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

                      Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
                      If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
                      bernard

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The electric force between charges may be calculated using Coulomb's law. Normal household circuits in the U.S. operate on an AC voltage of about V =120 volts. Connected to such a ciruit, the electric power relationship P = IV tells us that to use power at the rate of P = 120 watts on a 120 volt circuit would require an electric current of I = 1 ampere. One ampere of current transports one Coulomb of charge per second through the conductor. So one Coulomb of charge represents the charge transported through a 120 watt lightbulb in one second.

                        If two one-second collections of 1 Coulomb each were concentrated at points one meter apart, the force between them could be calculated from Coulomb's Law. For this particular case, that calculation becomes


                        If two such charges could indeed be concentrated at two points a meter apart, they would move away from each other under the influence of this enormous force, even if they had to rip themselves out of solid steel to do so!

                        If such enormous forces would result from our hypothetical charge arrangement, then why don't we see more dramatic displays of electrical force? The general answer is that at a given point in a wire, there is never very much departure from electrical neutrality. Nature never collects a Coulomb of charge at one point. It might be instructive to examine the amount of charge in a sphere of copper of volume one cubic centimeter. Copper has one valence electron outside of closed shells in its atom, and that electron is fairly free to move about in solid copper material (that's what makes copper a good electrical conductor). The density of metallic copper is about 9 grams/cm3 and one mole of copper is 63.5 grams so the cubic centimeter of copper contains about 1/7th of a mole or about 8.5 x 1022 copper atoms. With one mobile electron per atom, and with the electron charge of 1.6 x 10-19 Coulombs, this means there are about 13,600 Coulombs of potentially mobile charge in one cm3 of copper. Suppose we remove enough of the electrons from two spheres of copper so that there is enough net positive charge on them to suspend one of them over the other. What fraction of the electron charge must we remove? The force to lift one of the spheres of copper would be its weight, 0.088 Newtons. Assuming that the net charge resides at the points of the spheres most distant from each other because of the charge repulsion, we can set the force of repulsion equal to the weight of a sphere. The radius of a one cm3 sphere is 0.62 cm, so we will treat the force as that between two point charges 2.48 cm apart (i.e., twice the sphere diameter apart). Using Coulomb's law, this requires a charge of 7.8 x 10-8 Coulombs. Compared to the total mobile charge of 13,600 Coulombs, this amounts to removing just one valence electron out of every 5.7 trillion (5.7 x 1012) from each copper sphere. The final result is that the removal of just one out of roughly six trillion of the free electrons from each copper sphere would cause enough electric repulsion on the top sphere to lift it, overcoming the gravitational pull of the entire Earth!



                        Nature uses the best tool she has, atoms. Little thing but such forces!
                        Last edited by bernard; 15-10-2005, 08:23 AM.
                        Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
                        We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

                        Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
                        If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
                        bernard

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Somasimplers,

                          10/ A constant firing neuron.

                          [flash]http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic9.swf[/flash]

                          http://www.somasimple.com/flash_anims/atomic9.swf

                          It is only the vertical motion that occurs in an axon. I will explain why and how this motion is then sent along the axon.

                          Diane,

                          Hope you like this flowing?

                          Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
                          We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

                          Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
                          If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
                          bernard

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Nice animation Bernard, it reminds me of a heart beat. Perhaps it IS a heart beat, sort of. It makes sense to me that once nature has worked out a way to move things (any sort of thing) along a tube/into and out of a tube, it would stick with what works.

                            The heart arises from brain very early on. It operates somewhat independently of the brain with its nodes, etc. The vasculature depends a huge amount on local nervous system control to tell it how wide it needs to be. Maybe the vascular system and the nervous system are twins that were never really separated at birth, and in the brain the only thing holding them apart is glia, in the body the only thing holding them apart is schwann.

                            Mabe their movements stimulate each other (the vascular movement stimulates through mechano reception) and that's what keeps the neuromatrix going. Maybe that's why there are free nerve endings everywhere.. the brain needs to feel the heart. The brain and the heart need to feel each other.

                            Just a little theory to get me going this morning,
                            Last edited by Diane; 15-10-2005, 02:13 PM.
                            Diane
                            www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                            SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                            HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                            Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                            Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                            Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                            @PainPhysiosCan
                            WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                            @WCPTPTPN
                            Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                            @dfjpt
                            SomaSimple on Facebook
                            @somasimple

                            "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                            “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                            “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                            "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                            "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Diane,

                              Maybe I pushed you in this way of thinking. It was my first thought when I saw the animation. But you may consider that I magnified enormously the ions/charges while I reduced in the same way the axon. I cheated to increase the tiny movement.

                              The real size of the scene is quite different since ions will be like peas on a large swiss ball and the membrane will like the rubber envelope of the ball.
                              A very little movement but so vital as you said. Without it, no communication neitheir brain.

                              Nature use little means that provide great forces.

                              Do not forget that it is a local response seen on few angstroms, (is one ten-billionth (1/10000000000) of a meter.) and ions are 3/5 angstroms wide.

                              Do not forget the basic motion of charges, it is where is situated the elegance of Nature's solution. (far from our electrical one...)
                              Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
                              We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

                              Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
                              If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
                              bernard

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X