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  • Rolfing - Structural Integration

    Hello dears.

    How long? I have for a long time not worked in physiotherapy anymore. Nowadays, just working with Pilates, Thai Massage and Yoga.

    I have thought about Rolfing. Have any of you any experience with this therapy? Any conclusions? What about Rolfing and science? Something better and cheaper to invest in a course?

    Thanks and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,


    Flávio, from Brazil.

  • #2
    Flavio,

    I personally went through 12 sessions of this in the early 80s. The practitioner, named Austin McElroy, had been personally trained by Ida Rolf and we even taught a workshop together.

    Austin told me that he "felt guilty" because his very gentle method, often including the amplification of ideomotion, was not what he had learned in the training he'd received in Colorado. I found what he did informative if not transformative.

    Rolf was mistaken in her interpretation but effective nonetheless. This is by no means unusual. She had a powerful celebrity client in Fritz Pearls who lionized her technique and was the darling of Hollywood for a while.

    I wouldn't mind that myself.

    If that community has altered their explanatory theory lately I don't know it. They are always welcome here and Chance Mobley, a contributor in the past, is certified in the method.

    Chance?
    Barrett L. Dorko

    Comment


    • #3
      I had a 10 session series done about 5 years ago. I had been curious about it ever since my first soft tissue courses made reference to it as an influence. It was an interesting experience: moderately uncomfortable at times, remarkably sedating at others. Each session targeted a different series of body regions with the intent not of fixing any particular "problem" but to basically overhaul structural alignment.

      I still have my before and after polaroids buried somewhere. From start to finish there were I'd say noticeable but not earth shattering changes. Some sessions produced a freeing of movement and reduction in "tightness" that was quite dramatic, others less so. I felt all of it was transient though. The changes in alignment must have been somewhat lasting and noticeable as people I worked with remarked how much taller I was standing.

      I'm glad I had the experience but would caution anyone about spending that amt of $ with the hopes of getting anything specific "fixed"

      Tony Friese, PT
      Tony Friese, PT
      Vestibular Rehabilitation Competency 2006
      Wausau, WI

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Barrett Dorko View Post
        Flavio,

        I personally went through 12 sessions of this in the early 80s. The practitioner, named Austin McElroy, had been personally trained by Ida Rolf and we even taught a workshop together.

        Austin told me that he "felt guilty" because his very gentle method, often including the amplification of ideomotion, was not what he had learned in the training he'd received in Colorado. I found what he did informative if not transformative.

        Rolf was mistaken in her interpretation but effective nonetheless. This is by no means unusual. She had a powerful celebrity client in Fritz Pearls who lionized her technique and was the darling of Hollywood for a while.

        I wouldn't mind that myself.

        If that community has altered their explanatory theory lately I don't know it. They are always welcome here and Chance Mobley, a contributor in the past, is certified in the method.

        Chance?
        The method has evolved a great deal, but there's a lot of bureaucracy involved with the curriculum. The hardcore Rolfer's are still focusing on connective tissue; the middle of the road Rolfer's have added cranial-sacral and visceral work; and the newest generation is more involved with neuroscience, nerve mobilization, and authentic-type movement (i.e. Peter Levine's work). Interestingly, Brazil is a hotbed for Rolfer's who work with perception, meaning, orientation, etc. to create more resources and options for body movement.

        p.s. there is also a faction that is enamored with cold laser, but that's a different story.

        Todd
        “Don’t believe everything you think.”

        Comment


        • #5
          The two (not one, but 2, because I actually went back for a second visit, hoping I had just been a wimp the first time and that the second wouldn't be so bad) Rolfing sessions I went for in 1994 or 5 left me feeling as though I'd been hit by a truck. I hated it and quit.
          Diane
          www.dermoneuromodulation.com
          SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
          HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
          Neurotonics PT Teamblog
          Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
          Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
          @PainPhysiosCan
          WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
          @WCPTPTPN
          Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

          @dfjpt
          SomaSimple on Facebook
          @somasimple

          "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

          “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

          “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

          "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

          "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

          Comment


          • #6
            By the above replies, may I think Rolfing is a good therapy?

            Thank you dears, Harih Om,


            Flávio.

            Comment


            • #7
              For what?
              Barrett L. Dorko

              Comment


              • #8
                Dears and friend Dorko.

                I am interested in helping people with the art of touch. For about 2500 years, Nuad Borarn (Thai Yoga Massage) has helped people around the world, as much emotional as physically.
                I want to choose a touch therapy that the faster relieves pain, corrects posture for saving body's energy, for the PERSON or BEING to feel free in relation to range of motion and life and for helping with emotional and mental scars somatized by brain in/on body.

                I respect my dears of SomaSimple, but I do not consider science as the only truth anymore. I have had a life of balancing intelligence with intuition. Of course, scientifically validated touch therapies are good for me since they are more holistic, not just localized.

                I do not have the intention of discussing my self-study or my experience, since in science, the clinical experience and clinical personal opinion are at the base of pyramids of science. I just want to know if you all that have reading more papers than me, have some non-indication for me do not to study Rolfing just because it is not efficient.

                Sorry for my English.


                Cheers, and with all repects, thank you always,

                Flávio.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Does massage therapy reduce cortisol? A comprehensive quantitative review.

                  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21147413


                  In relation to humans, science is just a guide, not the reality.


                  Flávio.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "Specialist is that one who, with time, studies more and more, about less and less, until he knows almost everything about almost nothing."


                    And that is the reason why I am practising differently.


                    Flávio.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I respect my dears of SomaSimple, but I do not consider science as the only truth anymore.
                      Flavio,

                      I don't think anyone here holds that science or the scientific method is the only way to find the truth.

                      In fact, I don't think the "truth" is what we're looking for. What we're looking for are explanations that make sense and are defensible, yet modifiable in light of new discovery.

                      The best method of discovery for natural phenomena is through scientific inquiry. If you know of a better way, then I'm all ears.

                      I can't specifically address your question about Rolfing because I don't know much about it. What I've heard is that it can get pretty rough and create a noxious input. I don't understand why any therapist would want this for a patient, regardless of the patient's masochistic inclinations.

                      If my impression is accurate, then my next question would be: Is this a defensible method based on what we know about pain?
                      John Ware, PT
                      Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
                      "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
                      “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
                      be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        John,


                        What we're looking for are explanations that make sense and are defensible, yet modifiable in light of new discovery.

                        What I am looking for is the same.

                        The best method of discovery for natural phenomena is through scientific inquiry. If you know of a better way, then I'm all ears.

                        Human beings are not just material (physical), we are also made of psycho-neuro-immuno-endocrino and energetic interactions. So, we must include in science inquiries, subjective methods of analyses, as Brian Wallace advocates in his book - Hidden Dimensions: The Unification of Physics and Consciousness.

                        Is this a defensible method based on what we know about pain?

                        I think it depends on the patient's suffering. If every other therapies have already been tried, this approach, if subtle, can be applyed. But now I am looking for methods that not only treat pain, but the whole being too, through physical approach, for example, yoga and Nuad Borarn (Thai Yoga Massage).

                        Kind regards,

                        Flávio.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ...we are also made of psycho-neuro-immuno-endocrino and energetic interactions.
                          Flavio,

                          All of these are explainable (not easily, mind you) through scientific inquiry.

                          In my opinion, I don't think PTs are trained to "treat" suffering directly, although we can help to alleviate it by treating patients' pain.

                          Suffering afflicts the soul, if you believe humans have one. I don't think that's something that a scientifically-based health profession should concern itself with. Anyway, who said all suffering is to be avoided, treated or healed. I think this is a misconception of the post-modern world. There's such a thing as suffering with significance.
                          John Ware, PT
                          Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
                          "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
                          “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
                          be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Human beings are not just material (physical), we are also made of psycho-neuro-immuno-endocrino and energetic interactions. So, we must include in science inquiries, subjective methods of analyses, as Brian Wallace advocates in his book - Hidden Dimensions: The Unification of Physics and Consciousness.
                            Flavio, unless you learn how the nervous system is involved in and juggles all this, you will flounder. You will need to read neuroscience textbooks as well as popular and inspiring books which marry physics and consciousness into the same title. You will have to place many many more dots much closer together.

                            John, I think we all would like to do our best to help people suffer less, and certainly, maybe especially, learn how to not contribute more to it.
                            Last edited by Diane; 02-01-2011, 04:09 PM.
                            Diane
                            www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                            SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                            HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                            Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                            Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                            Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                            @PainPhysiosCan
                            WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                            @WCPTPTPN
                            Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                            @dfjpt
                            SomaSimple on Facebook
                            @somasimple

                            "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                            “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                            “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                            "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                            "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think we all would like to do our best to help people suffer less, and certainly, maybe especially, learn how to not contribute more to it.
                              I guess that depends on who "we all" includes. History is replete with examples of those who liked nothing better than to inflict suffering on others.

                              If you're talking about our little universe here, then of course I agree. :angel:
                              John Ware, PT
                              Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
                              "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
                              “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
                              be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

                              Comment

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