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  • #16
    Originally posted by John W View Post
    I guess that depends on who "we all" includes. History is replete with examples of those who liked nothing better than to inflict suffering on others.

    If you're talking about our little universe here, then of course I agree. :angel:
    Yes, I was. :angel:

    In terms of an interactor model of care being implemented as opposed to a fascist model (metaphorically speaking) I thought this story was fabulous: Giving Alzheimer’s Patients Their Way, Even Chocolate
    Diane
    www.dermoneuromodulation.com
    SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
    HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
    Neurotonics PT Teamblog
    Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
    Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
    @PainPhysiosCan
    WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
    @WCPTPTPN
    Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

    @dfjpt
    SomaSimple on Facebook
    @somasimple

    "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

    “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

    “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

    "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

    "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

    Comment


    • #17
      John: In my opinion, I don't think PTs are trained to "treat" suffering directly, although we can help to alleviate it by treating patients' pain.

      I do not feel and think anymore physiotherapists cannot treat suffering. Two-way street, this is human being! Physical can treat soul suffering and vice-versa. We just need to open our hearts and see the results. Science has its way and conceptions, but we cannot be tied by its methods. If you believe you have a soul, so maybe you believe you can access subtle realities.
      Suffering comes with life... it is to be lived, not avoided.

      Diane, I have already read a few neuroscience textbooks. About inspiring books of physics and consciousness too. What I have read a lot lately is about yoga and buddhism. They say a lot about that questions.
      But, what most explains human suffering, human pains, etc, is living the exercise by yourself (a intelligent one, not that excessive weight bearing), and mainly, by meditating.
      Neuroscience has just started its first steps. As scientists and practicals, physiotherapists must consider all possibilities in theis arsenal. Not only science outcomes, but personal conclusions. Science will never explain all universe mysteries.

      :thumbs_up


      Flávio.

      Comment


      • #18
        Science will never explain all universe mysteries.
        Of course not. Since no scientist has ever said it would, or could, I always find this assertion troubling.

        I grow concerned when physical therapists take on mantles of expertise they haven't earned. This leads to disaster.

        I'm guessing I won't be invited to Brazil anytime soon.
        Barrett L. Dorko

        Comment


        • #19
          I think you are just making the same mistake as most people. An evidence-based approach uses:

          1. Scientific research & basic science
          2. Practitioner intuition, experience and expertise
          3. Client values and preferences.

          So an evidence based approach involves both the science and the art.

          This is an article I wrote about EBA to fitness.
          Evidence-Based Approach to Fitness/Sports Performance
          Last edited by anoopbal; 04-01-2011, 01:44 PM.
          Anoop Balachandran
          EXERCISE BIOLOGY - The Science of Exercise & Nutrition

          Comment


          • #20
            Anoop,

            Flavio is making an appeal to the mystical, not a blend of available scientific understanding and a casuistic approach to the patient in front of you. This is an extremely important distinction to understand, and as Barrett said, is fraught with disaster since it's not an area where we have any formal training or license whatsoever.
            John Ware, PT
            Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
            "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
            “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
            be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

            Comment


            • #21
              What I hear in Flavio's subtext is that he is willing to enact the essence of what I call human primate social grooming. To me, this is the non-verbal verb of treatment. It's the willingness to show up and be at work with a human no matter how that human feels, no matter how
              1. unsociable they may be or feel
              2. unhappy with their own existence
              3. not on top of their game
              4. not able to hold their own socially

              It means paying quiet and direct and focused and sustained attention to them anyway. To their physicality. Touching them meanwhile, probably. Any improvement that results in their suffering, as outlined in points 1-4 will be indirect, not direct. Any improvement there might be in their pain, might be more a direct result of your physical contact. But who really knows?
              Diane
              www.dermoneuromodulation.com
              SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
              HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
              Neurotonics PT Teamblog
              Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
              Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
              @PainPhysiosCan
              WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
              @WCPTPTPN
              Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

              @dfjpt
              SomaSimple on Facebook
              @somasimple

              "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

              “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

              “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

              "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

              Comment


              • #22
                Excellent research. It is interesting to read and learn something new in this direction. It is a pity that some of the resources listed here are blocked in my country, I have to change my ip to read the information.

                Comment

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