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  • The Skeptical Chiropractic Discussion Forum

    The Skeptical Chiropractic Discussion Forum
    http://chirotalk.proboards3.com/index.cgi

    Here is all you need to know about good and bad tendencies.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
    We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

    Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
    If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    bernard

  • #2
    I got it Bernard.
    Thanks a lot!!
    Lin JHIH CHANG, PT, MD, Taiwan

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by bernard View Post
      The Skeptical Chiropractic Discussion Forum
      http://chirotalk.proboards3.com/index.cgi

      Here is all you need to know about good and bad tendencies.

      hi thanks to this give me additional knowledge about chiropractic :clap1:

      Comment


      • #4
        Wow....I just read "Why I quit chiropractic" written by the sites admin....and again "WOW"...
        Joseph Brence, DPT, FAAOMPT, COMT, DAC
        "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein
        Blog: www.forwardthinkingpt.com

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        • #5
          This is quite an eye opener. I don't have more than a general knowledge about chiropractic care, mainly from patients that have seen chiro or the occasional chiro referral, but I would have thought that they would have better training in DD than this! Perhaps they are the ones that should be required to have referral to treat rather than PT. Kidding, of course, but strange that PT seems to get more training in DD, yet still must be seen by a physician prior to treatment for the most part.

          Nick
          Nick Nordtvedt, PT, DPT, Cert MDT

          You will never succeed if you are not prepared to fail.

          Comment


          • #6
            Perhaps they are the ones that should be required to have referral to treat rather than PT. Kidding, of course, but strange that PT seems to get more training in DD, yet still must be seen by a physician prior to treatment for the most part.
            Don't be kidding Jackson. They SHOULD require a medical referral but a physician would have to be crazy to refer to them. Their profession is worthless to modern medicine. Not sure where you are from, but PTs in many states are allowed to practice independent of medical referral via direct access.

            I am not sure if you are familiar with applied kinesiology, but if you aren't, look up some videos on it on Youtube. You will be surprised on how some chiro's conclude that an organ is dysfunctional.
            Joseph Brence, DPT, FAAOMPT, COMT, DAC
            "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein
            Blog: www.forwardthinkingpt.com

            Comment


            • #7
              [QUOTE=joebrence9;108703]sure where you are from, but PTs in many states are allowed to practice independent of medical referral via direct access.[QUOTE]

              I practice in Tennessee and we have limited direct access (6 visits in 15 days). I've seen a handful of direct access patients, but still not a whole lot commercial payers that reimburse without referral as well as public knowledge of this.

              Nick
              Nick Nordtvedt, PT, DPT, Cert MDT

              You will never succeed if you are not prepared to fail.

              Comment


              • #8
                Makes for grim reading - I do wonder if physio is different enough not to sink into this kind quagmire.

                regards

                ANdy
                "Here is Edward Bear coming downstairs now, bump, bump, bump, on the back of his head behind Christopher Robin. It is, as far as he knows, the only way of coming downstairs, but sometimes he feels that there is another way, if only he could stop bumping for a moment and think of it." A.A. Milne

                Comment


                • #9
                  Why is Chiropractic able to sustain itself when so many of it's initial concepts are shown to be flawed?It seems like it would be as simple as showing the flaws in homeopathy.Do they just have better lobbyist than the APTA?
                  Thank you for the link! Dave

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    DAve, have you ever heard how popular homeopathy still is in western Europe? Science be damned: they even have health plans covering the cost of this "water"!

                    Do you know how poor the science is supporting the use of ultrasound on spinal structures? Yet in this town alone, there are three clinics using US as a go-to modality for LBP. APTA is still a bit in a glass house....

                    There are still many people who can be easily duped into believing that their child's middle ear infection, their son's ADD, their daughter's asthma, their allergies, their back pain are all results of "subluxations". Too many people.
                    We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are - Anais Nin

                    I suppose it's easier to believe something than it is to understand it.
                    Cmdr. Chris Hadfield on rise of poor / pseudo science

                    Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley

                    We don't need a body to feel a body. Ronald Melzack

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Don't be fooled. These are not minority held, "fringe" beliefs by chiropractors as many of the deceptive chiropractic "reformers" would like you to believe.

                      Here's a good snapshot of what's going on through the eyes of the National Board of Chiropractic Examiners:

                      http://www.nbce.org/pdfs/practice-an...chapter_08.pdf

                      Note how many conditions are diagnosed as a subluxation and how the Examiners themselves promote "subluxation correction" for conditions such as endocrine disorders (etc.)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        "Childhood Disorders
                        Upper respiratory or ear infections are rarely seen in chiropractic practice. However,
                        when respondents did report seeing such conditions, 48% reported making the diagnosis in
                        the majority of these cases. Sixty-two percent of chiropractors co-manage their patients with
                        another provider, and 22% act as sole providers for the majority of their patients with upper
                        respiratory or ear infections.
                        Infantile colic is rarely seen in chiropractic practice, but 41% of respondents act as sole
                        providers for this condition in the majority of cases seen. Other childhood infectious diseases
                        and children with parasites are virtually never seen.
                        Data for childhood disorders appear in Table 8.16."

                        There is so much more wrong with this, but I got to this part and had to speak! How do 48% of chiropractors make the diagnosis of upper respiratory and ear infections in a majority of cases? Didn't a parent have to bring them to the chiropractor with this at least in mind? And how did they diagnosis this? I'm not a physician, but I've had a child with ear infections, and the pediatrician ALWAYS looks in the ears to diagnose. Do chiros do this? And how do they treat infant colic?

                        I'll have to digest and ponder the rest of this.
                        Nick Nordtvedt, PT, DPT, Cert MDT

                        You will never succeed if you are not prepared to fail.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Nemo,
                          We have a Welcome Forum, where new members can start a thread, introduce themselves, tell us a bit about what they do, etc.
                          Diane
                          www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                          SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                          HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                          Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                          Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                          Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                          @PainPhysiosCan
                          WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                          @WCPTPTPN
                          Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                          @dfjpt
                          SomaSimple on Facebook
                          @somasimple

                          "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                          “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                          “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                          "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                          "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

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                          • #14
                            I'll have to digest and ponder the rest of this.
                            Don't chew on and think about it too much, Jackson. No matter which way or how many times you slice it, chiropractic is founded on half-baked theories and outright lies.

                            Why anyone in this era of such readily available, high quality information would choose this as a career is beyond me. The crap available on youtube alone should be enough to dissuade any reasonable person from making such a huge mistake.

                            The operative word there is "reasonable".
                            John Ware, PT
                            Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
                            "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
                            “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
                            be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by John W View Post
                              Don't chew on and think about it too much, Jackson. No matter which way or how many times you slice it, chiropractic is founded on half-baked theories and outright lies.

                              Why anyone in this era of such readily available, high quality information would choose this as a career is beyond me. The crap available on youtube alone should be enough to dissuade any reasonable person from making such a huge mistake.

                              The operative word there is "reasonable".
                              The website for the Chirotalk forum has changed. The new one is:

                              Chirotalk: The Skeptical Chiropractic Discussion Forum

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