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Redefining ‘Evidence’ in EBP: Why “In My Experience” Doesn’t Cut It

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  • venerek
    replied
    Dan, I love the mushroom learning concept, thank you for sharing that.

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  • Boigle
    replied
    Originally posted by venerek View Post
    Patrick, Blaise, and Jo-- Thank you for your posts!

    Patrick, that was certainly the most puzzling thing said to me during the meeting. It sent the message that critical thinking, open dialogue, and challenging ideas are things inappropriate for students who lack experience and wisdom. I would have found it much more beneficial if my concerns in the essay were addressed, rather than me being told I needed to supplement my thinking with wisdom.
    Hey, you rule.

    It is too bad the people in charge are dumb.

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  • Diane
    replied
    I think it's pretty poor to employ "mushroom learning" (keep them in the dark and feed them crap). By the same token, I think it tells you everything you need to know about a school if they do that.
    :clap2::clap2::clap2:

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  • Dan84
    replied
    What a wonderful game of double-think PT school must be. I remember about a decade ago being in the audience for a PT school open day. By the oddest of odd chances, someone asked about Feldenkrais (as you can imagine, my ears burned bright red).

    "Oh no", the chap said "we only teach what we know works". I remember looking at their student handbook and seeing units pertaining to e-stim, US etc etc.

    Coincidentally, I wrote to that school about 6 months ago asking about their graduate entry program; they refused to provide me with a detailed description of units (so I could check to see where I could obtain recognition of prior learning). When I repeatedly asked why, I was told (politely) that they don't do that, each time more and more people being added to the email chain (a demonstration of bad faith if there ever was one).

    I crossed them off my list. Frankly, in this day and age - and given the cost of grad school - I think it's pretty poor to employ "mushroom learning" (keep them in the dark and feed them crap). By the same token, I think it tells you everything you need to know about a school if they do that.

    FWIW, I think one of the biggest disappointments in life is striving hard to get in with the "right crowd"...then when you get there, slowly realizing they're not so great after all. It's happened to me more then once.
    Last edited by Dan84; 05-08-2013, 08:18 PM.

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  • Jo Bowyer
    replied
    When I was a student osteopath we were advised in no uncertain terms "Don't make waves" I chose to ignore this advice and paid a very heavy price. Even in pre internet days word of what was done to me got out and I had letters of support from the profession and several job offers. The powers that be were also made to re evaluate their proceedures.

    I think that part of the problem is that courses of instruction have to be written and approved in advance and I have heard many complaints from students that some of the material they are taught in the classroom and clinic is out of date.

    The more intelligent educators will teach the material needed to pass exams and assessments and draw the students' attention to up to date science and be prepared to discuss it, they will also advise their more adventurous students that the newer material may not have passed across the examiners' radar and if the student knows what is good for them, they will do what is necessary to pass their exams.

    I started out with the intention of being an educator but realised that I didn't want to teach someone else's syllabus and probably wouldn't be doing my students any favours.
    I did some clinical teaching in sports medicine in the '80s when it was still a fringe subject and a lot of in service teaching when I was running my own department.

    It has taken many years for my opinions and methods to be considered respectable.
    I don't regret taking 'the path less travelled' but would not recommend it for those who want to get on in life.

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  • venerek
    replied
    Patrick, Blaise, and Jo-- Thank you for your posts!

    Patrick, that was certainly the most puzzling thing said to me during the meeting. It sent the message that critical thinking, open dialogue, and challenging ideas are things inappropriate for students who lack experience and wisdom. I would have found it much more beneficial if my concerns in the essay were addressed, rather than me being told I needed to supplement my thinking with wisdom.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jo Bowyer
    replied
    Young animals leave their parents and communities and at considerable risk band together with other individuals,find consolidate and defend a territory,which eventually leads to marginalisation of their own young and others who threaten the status quo. Yesterday's mavericks become today's elder statesmen. For the majority it is more comfortable to go with the flow.

    Those of us with 'splinters in our minds' are excited by new truth and value fresh eyes of whatever age who are prepared to flag up imperial nudity. It helps us to cut to the chase.

    The penalties for honesty can be harsh and some don't survive ostracisation.

    Thanks to the internet it is more difficult to sweep fact under the carpet and easier for maverick minds to find the dispossessed and take them in directions they might not have previously considered.

    Age/experience can give rise to compassion for those who attempt to defend untenable positions because they are frightened and the ability to formulate strategies to enable them to climb down without losing face.

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  • PatrickL
    replied
    I was told it may have been more appropriate to have sat on the essay until I was 5 years out of school and had more wisdom, which comes with experience
    This is the most patronizing line, in my opinion. I often get the you're inexperienced/young argument flung at me, in some way or another.

    I do understand that a 60 year old for example, will have more life experience to reflect on than myself, at 34 y/o. but I do wonder if 60 years of thinking in only one particular manner actually narrows, rather than broadens one's understanding of a given subject.

    I'm not convinced that wisdom is simply a function of age in and of itself, but rather, it's function of the style of thinking and evaluation one applies over a lifetime.

    Ken, even if your viewpoint is different in 5 years time, I don't think it would make your decision to put it out there today any less wise. I love that you weighed up the available evidence, developed an argument and out it out there.
    Last edited by PatrickL; 03-08-2013, 05:17 AM.

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  • venerek
    replied
    Thanks for your comments Pete and Chunk.

    Chunk, I think the course description is very informative. Phrases such as "faulty alignment" and "muscle imbalances" tell us all we need to know.

    The skills gained from these courses are quickly becoming indispensable for physiotherapists working in all areas of clinical practice.
    I can't say I agree.

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  • Diane
    replied
    :sad::sad::sad::cry::thumbs_do

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  • Chunk
    replied
    a fantastic reflective essay

    Ken,
    many thanks for your impressive reflective essay. Mirrors many of my own thoughts I find difficult to articulate so thank-you!

    So imagine how downbeat I feel to read the latest email from the Canadian Physiotherapy Association endorsing ("By exclusive engagement with CPA, Dr. Sahrmann is offering this program throughout Canada") a nation wide tour for a mechanical postural-structural-course (Movement Impairment Syndromes). I see this a backward step. I am interested in anyone's comments....here is the link

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  • petewang
    replied
    Ken,

    You are what we need more of.


    Your essay is great, an appreciation of the literature and its implications toward clinical reasoning and practice should be applauded, not condemned.

    I had recently left my place of employment because of these such issues and the unethical and potentially fraudulent actions I was asked to perform. Don't forget, getting through PT school still needs to happen. Be verbal but be aware.

    Leave a comment:


  • venerek
    replied
    Joe and Rod, thank you both for your replies.

    I completely agree with what you have said, Joe. It sounds like your experience closely parallels mine (absent the legal action, of course). Your writing at Forward Thinking PT and SportEx is one of the first resources that really changed my thought process as a student, thank you for what you do.

    Leave a comment:


  • joebrence9
    replied
    I am with Rod.

    Last year, I got a call from a "higher-up" at a company I worked for, and was instructed that I be "careful" about the stuff I post on my site, because some people can take it the wrong way. I guess someone within our profession, had threatened the company with "legal" action, if I continued to defame things he does and his views.

    My point, is that when you make yourself public ,you may have the greatest message in the world, but someone will always see it differently. And those in charge of large institutions are always trying to minimize their risk (of any consequences that may result).

    You wrote a great essay. They may or may not recognize that; but again, their concern is risk.

    Keep up the good work.

    Leave a comment:


  • HeadStrongPT
    replied
    It would be pretty outrageous for an essay like this to prompt disciplinary action by anyone.

    If the shoe fits...

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