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  • "Adverse Neural Tension" Testing Techniques (ANT)

    Hi,

    Can anyone tell me what ANT Testing Techniques are please? Are they related to manual therapy? :?

    Many thanks
    Rich

  • #2
    Hi Rich,

    Where did you listened this abbreviation => ANT?

    The only definition I think is Active Neural Test?
    In Neurodynamics tests, a test may be done actively or passively.

    (It exists also the term ART that is Active Release Technique)
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
    We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

    Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
    If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
    bernard

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Bernard,

      Yes, it has been mentioned in conjunction with some Maitland manipulation treatment. I think it is Active Neural Test.

      Would you happen to know what it is and where I can read more about it please?

      Many thanks
      Rich

      Comment


      • #4
        Hello,

        Try with that one

        http://www.somasimple.com/forums/showthread.php?t=817

        And read the topic READ ME FIRST on The Sound Of Silence Forum.
        Last edited by bernard; 06-08-2005, 06:56 AM.
        Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
        We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

        Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
        If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
        bernard

        Comment


        • #5
          That's great Bernard,

          Many thanks again!

          Kind regards,
          Rich

          Comment


          • #6
            ANT tests

            Hi Ricardo et al. First-timer here. I've been peeking at the discussions and noticed that you asked about ANT. I've been intimatelyinvolved in the area for the last 20 years and my experience is that the term originated from 'Adverse Neural Tension'. It all started from Alf Breig's book 'Adverse mechanical tension in the central nervous system' in 1978 (currently out of print). He is a 95 year-old Swedish retired neurosurgeon who did seminal research on biomechanics of the nervous system both in '78 and 1960 . His first book was called "Biomechanics of the central nervous system'. In both books he presented amazing photos of his research on the nervous systems of fresh cadavers in different body positions to illustrate how the nervous system moves with body movements and how pathologies can affect nervous system movement biomechanics and dysfunction. Enter Grieve, Maitland, Elvey, Butler and Shacklock (2005) who took this approach into manual therapy more extensively than before. Butler put forward the concept of Adverse Neural Tension in the late 1980s and 1990s which at the time was innovative to say the least. However, things have really moved from neural tension to neurodynamics, taking into account movement and physiology of the nervous system as a means of diagnosis and treatment of musculoskeletal and sporting pain problems. I hope you don't mind me mentioning my new book. If you would like to see something about it feel free to visit www.neurodynamicsolutions.com . For others, I'm happy to help with any questions or such like on the subject if anyone needs.

            Shacklock M 2005 Clinical neurodynamics: a new system of musculoskeletal treatment. Elsevier, Oxford

            Humbly yours,
            Michael Shacklock
            Musculoskeletal Physiotherapist
            Last edited by bernard; 19-01-2007, 08:14 AM. Reason: asked by M Shacklock

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi :

              Michael Shacklock.

              Welcome to the forum.

              By the way you gave does not work , i think there is over DOT.It s
              http://www.neurodynamicsolutions.com

              Thanks for the history and knowledge .

              Regards

              Emad
              Last edited by bernard; 19-01-2007, 08:14 AM. Reason: asked by M Shacklock
              :rose:

              Comment


              • #8
                Welcome to SomaSimple Michael, 8)

                I feel honored that you joined our humble young board!
                Two years ago, I was totally unaware about neuromobs but I took a look on the NOI site and was disturbed by the fresh knowledge that was told there.

                Our board is totally free and you're allowed to tell more about your book! You may post also in the training section if you want.

                So Ricardo, it wasn't Active but Adverse. I forgot it. :?

                ps: I deleted the dot in the cited link. :wink:
                Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
                We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

                Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
                If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
                bernard

                Comment


                • #9
                  HI Bernard:

                  :lol: :lol:
                  Me , could NOT delet the overdot , thanks for your helping hand :idea:


                  Regards

                  Emad
                  :rose:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Welcome to the board, Michael, and all it offers.

                    I am the puma sitting in the Persistent Pain Patients forum - it is much better looking than I am.

                    I have been a neuronut (Bernard will attest to that) for about 15 years, and look forward to your posts and any comments.



                    Nari

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Michael,
                      Welcome. Just want to say that I've got both your books now, and very much appreciate that you wrote down all your ideas and synthesized all that information. Thank you! (Too bad that Brieg book is out of print.)

                      I hope you will stay awhile and allow people to ask you all sorts of possibly time-consuming questions..
                      ,
                      Diane
                      Diane
                      www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                      SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                      HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                      Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                      Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                      Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                      @PainPhysiosCan
                      WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                      @WCPTPTPN
                      Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                      @dfjpt
                      SomaSimple on Facebook
                      @somasimple

                      "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                      “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                      “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                      "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                      "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks All for the welcome to Somasimple. Yep, if I can be of any help do let me know. And it has been a pleasure to finally release my book on Clinical Neurodynamics. We've been redoing the Neurodynamic Solutions web site and it might not be functioning as well as it should. This should only be temporary and thanks for your patience. About the Breig books, something is in the pipeline and if you would like any more information on this (it's a little early to be specific, I'm sorry), we can e-mail you with more info when things happen. Just log on to our web site and register for free information and we will gladly supply you with news updates, conference announcements, new research, clinical solutions and case histories. We don't spam junk around the place. We just let people know what's going on and try to be helpful in Clinical Neurodynamics.
                        Nari and Diane, I came across your contributions at other web locations which you will be aware of and am really pleased to see your discussions. My particular interest is to make Neurodynamics as clinically useful as possible and part of this is demystifying it and offering a system of diagnosis and treatment that is derived from the causal mechanisms within an evidence based framework, but not in a way that makes the evidence stifle creative thinking and application. What a sentence, sorry! The reason I add the evidence comments is that there is a lot of good evidence for the effectiveness of neurodynamic techniques (particularly in diagnosis and some stuff is coming out soon on therapeutic efficacy) but most therapists haven't read it. I mention some of it in my book but a problem with some research is that it doesn't leave the therapist with much in terms of clinical reasoning and it often doesn't measure the phenomena that we encounter clinically. I can be more specific about evidence in support of the clinical neurodynamics approach if anyone would like.

                        Regards to you all,
                        Michael

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Michael

                          We would definitely like, in answer to your last offer.

                          And I will spend the time soon having a cruise (less energetic than surf) around your website - looking forward to it.

                          Nari

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Michael,
                            About the Breig books, something is in the pipeline and if you would like any more information on this (it's a little early to be specific, I'm sorry), we can e-mail you with more info
                            Yes, thanks; I'd definitely like to know more about it.
                            am really pleased to see your discussions
                            I'm sure we'll be more than pleased to see more of yours.
                            My particular interest is to make Neurodynamics as clinically useful as possible and part of this is demystifying it and offering a system of diagnosis and treatment that is derived from the causal mechanisms within an evidence based framework, but not in a way that makes the evidence stifle creative thinking and application.
                            I like the sounds of that!
                            I can be more specific about evidence in support of the clinical neurodynamics approach if anyone would like.
                            Wonderful! I'm sure there will be more questions popping up.

                            Again, welcome.
                            Diane
                            PS: Looking forward to meeting you and learning your stuff in November.
                            Diane
                            www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                            SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                            HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                            Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                            Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                            Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                            @PainPhysiosCan
                            WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                            @WCPTPTPN
                            Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                            @dfjpt
                            SomaSimple on Facebook
                            @somasimple

                            "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                            “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                            “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                            "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                            "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, Diane, I'm looking forward to it too. I presume you mean that you are coming to my course in Vancouver in November that Deena Scoretz is organising. I have been to Vanc. several times before and it is a wonderful place. We should have a meal and a chat. For me, discussion is the food of life.

                              EVIDENCE:
                              There are many forms of evidence, as you will all know but the key issues for neurodynamics as I see them are 1. mechanisms validity (face validity in the EBM field), 2. diagnostic efficacy (sensitivity and specificity) and 3. therapeutic efficacy. Number 1. asks the question: do the tests actually do what we think they do on a mechanisms level and do they mechanically test or move the nerves, do they evoke impulses from different parts of the nervous system at the exact time of testing. Well, the answers to these questions are as follows:
                              1. Nerves can certainly be moved in a highly specific way with specific neurodynamic sequencing techniques. There are cadaver and real-time imaging studies to prove this. Our group did some recent work on imaging nerves in real time to see if we could move the nerves a. specifically with specific movements and b. whether these movements could be accurate in producing neural movement in relative isolation ie. WITHOUT moving the neighbouring musculoskeletal tissues (see Shacklock 2005 CD ROM, Clinical Neurodynamics, Elsevier,Oxford). Diane you should have this if you have my book. On the CD we show the median nerve at the wrist moving in perfect isolation longitudinally ie. without producing movement in the neighboring fascia and muscles. These observations had been made in cadaver studies in the 1970s (McLellan and Swash 1976 - it's referenced in my book). However, we are not entirely sure that this differentiated movement ability exists all over the body. My impression is that some areas of the body can be differentiated well and we might not be so fortunate in other areas of the body.
                              The question of whether the nerves produce impulses at the exact same time as testing and whether these can be differentiated in normals versus abnormals has also been answered (Nordin et al 1984). They got patients with neural disorders and, with microelectrodes placed into axons of the affected nerves, measured the nerves' responses to mechanical testing and showed that the abnormal nerves were hyperactive when tested mechanically, producing increased amounts of afferent input into the CNS compared with normal. The tissues investigated were: median and ulnar nerves, spinal cord, among others. So this question is well and truly answered.

                              The next question (2.) relates to diagnostic efficacy in patients ie. sensitivity and specificity - how effective are the tests in diagnosis? I'll get back to you after this. Past my bed time.

                              Hope this is interesting. Best wishes to you all.

                              By the way, whoever got this web site going really knew what they were doing. Great job! Was that you Bernard?

                              Comment

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