Energy Medicine

[bernard]

Jono,

I'm not sure it will help a lot in this case.
There is a profound misunderstanding about electric and electricity.
The latter exists only when there is an electric circuit. No such a thing seems exist in a cell or body.
The confusion is carried with ions which are charged particles but charged particles without any electric circuits are... charged particles which do not follow the electric laws.

[bernard]

Back to energy networks.
The first we could consider is an electric network but I put some doubts in the previous post.
If the energy flows, it must flow in designed networks because energy medicine is able to make drawings of such "wires".

Of course, we are able to measure a circulatory flow and it contains "energy".
Of course, an action potential reflects the "vitality" of a neuron and it may be recorded quite easily.
These examples may be described in anatomical terms and there is no continuity solution in the network.

In energy medicine: networks are well defined in their travels
http://www.acumedico.com/pericardium.htm

But some aspects remain mysterious!
There is a flow direction so energy circulates but what is the source and where goes the energy at the end of the meridian?

[BB]

What do you make of the microtubule business that is all the current buzz, Bernard?

[Diane]

Here is Victor Stenger's paper about microtubules. He says

"The brain is simply too large and too hot to be a quantum device, coherent or not."

The main problem is the scale. He says the microtubulists are off by two orders of magnitude. He's a particle physicist, so I'll take his word on that.

[bernard]

What do you make of the microtubule business that is all the current buzz, Bernard?

Cory,

Wait a minute! I'm just starting with the electric model and it provides, already, a lot of matter for though.

The anatomical/physical model are continuous in their description and physiology. One can follow the flow from the beginning to the end.

The energetic model provides spots which seem artificially linked making a pleasurable meridian/pathway. It doesn't assure us the pathway is real. The wires are absent but the explanation is obvious: the flow is elsewhere in the continuum and not measurable: Simple! Of course, these spots are exits from the outer space...

Another simpler explanation: No wire, no network and no energy!

[BB]

OK Bernard. I'll be patient.

I thought it might be a good time to think about these though because the en med folks use the microtubules as an explanation for the "wires" of communication. That is what made me think to ask.

[bernard]

I thought it might be a good time to think about these though because the en med folks use the microtubules as an explanation for the "wires" of communication. That is what made me think to ask.

Cory,

It doesn't change the problem at all.
The energy medicine is either trapped by the mysterious nature of energy or weird wires unable to convey traditional energies.

[Diane]

Here is an interesting discussion on Science-based Medicine blog about the virulence of "dopa-memes", a word I made up, and define as ideas that

• exist solely to shape the direction of thinking toward feel-good inner experiences;
• have no basis in reality.

[bernard]

Cory,

the network is evoked in this paper:

[bernard]

The idea that electronic mobility and charge transfer
across biological polymeric molecules may be a
fundamental mechanism in living organisms was
first proposed by Szent-Gyorgyi in 1941 [8]. During
the next 30 years, some evidence was accumulated
showing that a number of proteins including collagen
can display semiconductive, piezoelectric and
photoconductive properties in vitro [9]. Whether
these types of electronic phenomena occur, and
have biological significance, in vivo, however, remains
unknown.

Ionically derived
potentials are known to have important local
downstream effects on extracellular matrix biosynthesis
[12] but usually decay over short distances.

The influence of
the localized stimulus may be detectable as a transient
change in voltage and/or current at some distance
from the excited region, and the time delay
between the original pulse and its detection at that
distance may be measurable.

Thus it may be possible
to measure changes in the tissue’s electrical
properties resulting from physiologically relevant
mechanical stresses, as well as the extent and
speed of propagation of the influence of these
changes.

These connective
tissue fibroblasts exhibit active cytoskeletal
responses (spreading, lamellipodia formation)
within minutes of tissue lengthening [14]. Whether
these cytoskeletal responses are accompanied by
some type of cell-to-cell signaling remains unknown.

Finally, exploring the function of connective
tissue as a network also should involve understanding
the relationship between direct
communication within the network, and possible
indirect communication via the nervous system.
Exciting new developments in the field of neuroplasticity
indicate that a two way ‘‘conversation’’ exists
between sensory neural pathways and target organs
[20]. Although connective tissue is richly innervated
with mechanoreceptors and nociceptors,

[bernard]

Another country tries (normally) to find some proves that maintain the energy concept in place.
It is of course, China.
There is, these days, a plethora of paper that support traditional points of views of oriental Medicine.

Here is one I loved.

Nan Fang Yi Ke Da Xue Xue Bao. 2007 May;27(5):573-9.
Related Articles, Links

[From meridians and acupoints to self-supervision and control system: a hypothesis of the 10th functional system based on anatomical studies of digitized virtual human]

[Article in Chinese]

Wang J, Dong WR, Wang CL, Yao DW, Zhao BL, Shen BL, Yang LL, Yuan L.

Department of Anatomy, Southern Medical University, Guangzhou 510515, China. whmzyq@fimmu.com

Chinese acupuncture and moxibustion has been widely accepted as a useful therapeutics all over the world, but its mechanism has not been fully defined. For this purpose, a reticular framework of whole-body fascia and connective tissues has been established by means of digitized virtual human technique. The virtual acupoints represented three-dimensionally were compared with the sites for stimulation in practice of traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) acupuncture therapy. The results showed that the fascial network constituted by the connective tissues may be the anatomical basis for acupuncture therapy. We found that the acupoints were mainly located where thick connective tissues were present. In this fascial network, sensitive nerve endings, active cells and lymphatic vessels abounded in the sites with thick connective tissue, and needling at these sites induced definite biological effects. In light of biological phylogeny and embryo development, we believe that the connective tissue network may constitute a new functional system in the human body, the Self-supervision and control system (Fasciology), which provides a theoretical base for acupuncture therapy.

Publication Types:

• English Abstract
• Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't

PMID: 17545059 [PubMed - in process]

Perhaps may I ask a silly question: Are these sensitive nerve endings connected elsewhere? :angel:

[bernard]

The paper cited in post 84 is intriguing:

Docteur H Langevin explores some possible forces that may flow in the fascia. Strangely this cautious exploration ends with abrupt statements:

The idea that electronic mobility and charge transfer
across biological polymeric molecules may be a
fundamental mechanism in living organisms was
first proposed by Szent-Gyorgyi in 1941 [8]. During
the next 30 years, some evidence was accumulated
showing that a number of proteins including collagen
can display semiconductive, piezoelectric and
photoconductive properties in vitro [9]. Whether
these types of electronic phenomena occur, and
have biological significance, in vivo, however, remains
unknown.

The reader may conclude in many ways:

• Some evidences were observed in vitro but science is actually unable to track them in vivo.
• Some facts were experimented in vitro but do not occur in vivo.

[bernard]

But Doctor Langevin says:

The influence of
the localized stimulus may be detectable as a transient
change in voltage and/or current at some distance
from the excited region, and the time delay
between the original pulse and its detection at that
distance may be measurable.

Was it measured?

1. Yes, like any electrical activity.
2. No but it escapes to normal and scientific measurement.
3. No because there is no such activity.

[bernard]

Another important thing where Doctor Langevin is silent is the well known nature of these electrochemical processses.
They are called Redox Reactions

Absence of measurement and inability to cite a process is mother of nullity.

[JasonE]

Very interesting conversation! I don't practice energy medicine nor have any current interest in pursuing it. I'm a pretty mundane hands-on massage therapist that likes having a rational explanation for the techniques I use.

However...

In years of studying martial arts, and later upon entering massage studies, I had several experiences that I still cannot explain. Here is one of the most dramatic examples:

A martial artist claimed he could do various energy-based things, that he was self-taught and had started to teach others. Curious, I asked for a demo and he agreed on the spot. Cool, I thought... I'd studied aikido and had read about various ki and chi-based martial arts stuff... we sat down on the dojo floor and at his direction I held up my hand. He sat a short distance from me and held his hand up about a foot from mine. I closed my eyes, and he asked me to see if I felt anything happen.

After a minute or so my palm began getting very warm, and after a while my hand was shaking, yet my arm felt relaxed. I felt as if the warmth was being pushed through the middle of my forearm towards my elbow. The sensation was not painful, but it felt... uncontrolled and forced, and I didn't like it.

Rather than just break contact, I tried an idea from aikido's "unbendable arm" - I visualized a jet of water flowing through my arm and out of my hand. The warmth and shaking in my arm immediately ceased as if flushed out, and I heard a sudden noise. Opening my eyes, the martial artist was sitting back a foot or so farther away, with his hand well away from mine. His eyes were very wide when he asked what I'd done. Apparently he'd been trying to "send energy" into my hand, and thought things were going well... until he felt "the flow" reverse and shoot weird sensations up through his arm into his shoulder. Scared, he'd quickly broken contact.

Not understanding what the hell had just happened, I gently suggested that if a duffer like me could so easily reverse things on him, perhaps he shouldn't be teaching yet...

I still don't know what actually happened that day. I'd love to know, but for now it's just an interesting experience that helps remind me that I still have much to learn.