Deconstruction of "Z-Health Performance Solutions"

[Jennjenn]

Your answers are very understandable and impressing words about Z-Health thanks for your wonderful words it is more use-able to my health. I'm also searching some ideas about health in reliefseeker that is more details given anyone know check this one.

[JustinG]

To the best of my knowledge most of the exercises from the ZHealth System can be found in Scott Sonnon's Zdorovye Health System, which has morphed over the years, re-branded, into new trademarks essentially. Zdorovye had joint ROM exercises which involved bidirectional circles, figure 8's, then combined. Also ground work that looked similarly to body weight conditioning exercises one would learn in judo or wrestling. Sonnon termed this the grapplers tool box. The new variants are called Intu-Flow (Zdorovye) and Tacfit (grapplers toolbox).

You can find many video's using those search terms on youtube. Also look up primal movement as an umbrella search term and you'll find even more comparable movement systems. Sonnon used to quote Feldenkrais and Thomas Hanna all the time, so it doesn't surprise me that concepts like sensory motor amnesia and the arthrokinetic reflex have been used in here and in their writings. I think Cobb has tried to marry good joint mobility training with modern neuroscience, but for the life of me I don't know how he has come up with 9 or 10 $2500.00 USD courses all with unique content? I don't think there is unique content in all of them.

Someone, I think Regnalt Deux mentioned they've seen all the PDF's here. Does each level have independent material, or is it all dynamic joint mobility exercises with vestibulo-occular reflex exercises?

[weni888]

A nice marketing strategy.

Cannot disagree with what he did. But disagree with what he said particularly the underlying mechanism of gaining the improvement.

Regards,

Weni

[Johnny_Nada]

Eyes rolling to back of head...

Sounds like a lot of manual therapist approaches

[Keats Snideman]

New Z-Health Video on Training for Symmetry

I saw this video today (a colleague sent it to me to ask my opinion) and thought I'd post it here since its been a while since I've joined in on this old thread! This is an interesting concept that Dr. Cobb puts forward but I still have such a hard time buying into the "test-retest" strategies used here. I guess I just don't really see the point of basing your training on such isolated movements.

I for one would never be able to train either arm according to the tests since my internal rotation is quite limited in that scarecrow position.

http://zhealtheducation.com/episode-...da8188d79b38af

Thoughts??

[JasonE]

Here's a talk indicating that some of the ZHealth people are starting to "get it" with regards to modern pain science.

http://youtu.be/W0UxZ7PZ2L4

[Dan84]

Hello everyone

Sorry to necro; I saw this thread pop up on the "Who's on-line" list. To add just a soupcon of detail:

AFAIK, Z-Health is based on an older package called "Zdorovye", which in itself is based on ROSS (A kind of Slavic martial art gestalt method, akin to Systema). I remember when Zdorovye, ROSS and Grappler's Toolbox came out (circa 2000?). To my understanding, Dr Cobb and co and the originator of Zdorovye system went in separate directions. Suggest interested parties peruse bullshido.com as to the nature of the fracas.

The last time I checked (again, circa 2000! Caveat lector), Z-health was based on joint range of motion methods employed in martial arts, 'fear re-activity' inoculation drills, methods employing stretch-shortening cycles, plyometrics and other novel movements.

This - yet again - bolsters my contention that a lot of things that originate from the martial arts end up in the therapy domain.

[YT]6okF3IzP8No[/YT]

BTW, there's a video on the Zhealth webpage (see: Get out of pain retrain your brain that may be of interested if not mentioned already)

[JasonE]

Keats,

Thank you for starting this thread! This is how I find SomaSimple. I was searching for info on Z-Health and this popped up in the search results. I've been here ever since, and my practice is far better for it!

[Keats Snideman]

Hi Keats!

I remember you from your posts over at Supertraining!

You noted the following about Cobb's approach:



I'm sorry if I keep returning the the paralympian sprinters on these kinds of issues, but watching these guys run and jump on my track back in '97 became my 'epiphany' moment on issues relative to imbalances and asymmetries during high speed running.

Volpentest was born without lower arms and feet. In fact, when you look closely at his prosthetics, you'll see that one limb is actually longer than the other. Nevertheless, he was able to run 22.94 for 200 meters, a time faster than that run by the majority of able bodied high school sprinters I've ever coached over the past thirty-six years.

I suppose that, if you don't have a left wrist, you don't have a right ankle problem. But what about single below the knee amputees like Marlon Shirley, the paralympic world champion for 100 meters? Maybe his explanation would suggest some other means of neurological compensation.

My take is that these kinds of peformances should compel us to at least reconsider our theories on the "human gait cycle."

Wow, I can't believe this thread is still here after I started it some years back! I haven't posted on the site in a few years but thought I'd check in to see what was new (or old)! Ken, I do miss those incredible conversations on the old Supertraining Forums from the early 2000's! I really wish Mel Siff were still around today; he would have had some great input on this Z-Health Thread!

[atx4]

Now they've put up a reference library on their site...

http://www.zhealth.net/reference-lib...reference-list

[atx4]

I've read through this entire thread. Very interesting and very educational. It's a nice thread for someone who wants to hone their bullshit detection skills

[Ken Jakalski]

Hi Keats!

I remember you from your posts over at Supertraining!

You noted the following about Cobb's approach:

It gets a little more dicey when he puts forth the idea that there are corresponing joints in the body. For instance, Cobb states that a right ankle problem is correlated with a left wrist problem. A right knee problem is related to dysfunction in the left elbow; right hip with left shoulder, etc... I guess he bases this theory on the human gait cycle. It kind of makes sense but sounds a little too simplistic.

I'm sorry if I keep returning the the paralympian sprinters on these kinds of issues, but watching these guys run and jump on my track back in '97 became my 'epiphany' moment on issues relative to imbalances and asymmetries during high speed running.

Volpentest was born without lower arms and feet. In fact, when you look closely at his prosthetics, you'll see that one limb is actually longer than the other. Nevertheless, he was able to run 22.94 for 200 meters, a time faster than that run by the majority of able bodied high school sprinters I've ever coached over the past thirty-six years.

I suppose that, if you don't have a left wrist, you don't have a right ankle problem. But what about single below the knee amputees like Marlon Shirley, the paralympic world champion for 100 meters? Maybe his explanation would suggest some other means of neurological compensation.

My take is that these kinds of peformances should compel us to at least reconsider our theories on the "human gait cycle."

[Barrett Dorko]

With 236 posts this thread is huge.

I would love to see everyone here read through it. It seems to have brought out the best in some and the worst in others. Several of the posters endure and several others have disappeared.

Perhaps it will serve as a template for what can be done with thoughtful questioning and rational approaches to care in every community committed to seeing others in hopes of helping them - and that should include all of us here.

[Diane]

I prefer to attack ideas & constructs rather than professions. If you wish to attack a profession it is your website & you are free to do as you wish.

I have never concerned myself w/ labels or letters after people's names. I seek knowledge and those that are willing to share. Knowledge begets knowledge. What I care about is helping our patients suffer less and participate more without being dependent on us.

Then we agree. :angel::thumbs_up
On nearly everything, no less.

The website exists mainly to discuss/critique anything, including but not restricted to any "name" that might have become attached to a product or that may have become recognized as a "brand."

Not real "persons."

We don't recognize professions as persons.

[Craig Liebenson]

we do not attack individuals or let individuals be attacked by others. ......If you are going to be here only to try (and fail) to defend the (so-called) profession known as chiro, then I don't think you'd be a good fit. Although you'd still be welcome regardless, unless you should begin attacking or being otherwise annoying. :angel:

I prefer to attack ideas & constructs rather than professions. If you wish to attack a profession it is your website & you are free to do as you wish.

I have never concerned myself w/ labels or letters after people's names. I seek knowledge and those that are willing to share. Knowledge begets knowledge. What I care about is helping our patients suffer less and participate more without being dependent on us.