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  • Structuralism, Functionalism, and Cognitive Dissonance

    Seems time for a new thread. I got way off on this functionalism/structuralism tangent while posting on Barrett's Manual Magic thread, which drifted over into a cognitive dissonance theme. It was Jon Newman (The Linkmaster) who first introduced cognitive dissonance into this discussion group. From a deeper link on this C.D. link, termed "Cognitive Dissonance and Sour Grapes", I have brought this excerpt:
    Aesop’s fable is the source of the phrase ‘‘sour grapes." The story illustrates what former Stanford University social psychologist Leon Festinger called cognitive dissonance. It is the distressing mental state in which people feel they "find themselves doing things that don’t fit with what they know, or having opinions that do not fit with other opinions they hold."2

    The fox’s retreat from the grape arbor clashed with his knowledge that the grapes were tasty. By changing his attitude toward the grapes, he provided an acceptable explanation for his behavior.

    Festinger considered the human need to avoid dissonance as basic as the need for safety or the need to satisfy hunger. It is an aversive drive that goads us to be consistent. The tension of dissonance motivates us to change either our behavior or our belief in an effort to avoid a distressing feeling. The more important the issue and the greater the discrepancy between behavior and belief, the higher the magnitude of dissonance that we will feel. In extreme cases cognitive dissonance is like our cringing response to fingernails being scraped on a blackboard—we’ll do anything to get away from the awful sound.
    The takeaway point here is that yes, it's uncomfortable to be in this state, but it is no one's fault, and it will resolve with some attention and graded exposure. One must distance oneself emotionally from the discomfort, become one's own "parent" (soothe the freaked-out part of the brain), and rationally/fearlessly choose an "option" that best resolves as many variables as possible, then adopt it as an MO. I think this process is what constitutes the underbelly of the rock of all science-based thinking, choosing fearlessness, leaving behind cherished illusions, letting go of useless beliefs, permitting mental composting to happen.

    There are dozens of great take-off points from that first link. I'm off to take a look at learning styles next.
    Diane
    www.dermoneuromodulation.com
    SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
    HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
    Neurotonics PT Teamblog
    Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
    Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
    @PainPhysiosCan
    WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
    @WCPTPTPN
    Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

    @dfjpt
    SomaSimple on Facebook
    @somasimple

    "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

    “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

    “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

    "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

    "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

  • #2
    I'll be reading with enthusiasm Diane...you read my mind :angel:

    Karie

    Comment


    • #3
      In taking a look at the link to all the varous definitions of "structuralism", most of them very abstract (to me anyway) and philosophical/religious, I came upon this link to a psychobiology site. (Well, still pretty abstract but at least the word "biology" is in there...)

      Structuralism is defined as "Theory according to which the study of a category of facts must mainly consider the structures. The structuralism of the psychology of the form (cf Gestalt), of modern linguistics (including generative linguistics), of social sciences. [ Le Petit Robert électronique, version 1.3, 1997 ]"

      I'd say that this definition comes reasonably close to the:
      1. ortho fixation in our profession of bony bits and how they slide around, or should, without a thought as to why or how they would naturally, the only interest in knowing arthrokinematics seeming to be related to knowing which way to push them to get them to not be a movement problem;
      2. a fascination that the myofascialistas have, again with a structure, i.e. fascia this time, still mesoderm that can't possibly move except with the connected brain's permission, and still focused on the notion (perceptual fantasy) that they can create movement in it directly with a pair of outside hands.

      With regard to "functionalism", we are less in the realm of abstractions/conceptual categories and more into the nervous system. This informatics site says functionalism is "A philosphical view of mind according to which mental processes are characterized in terms of their abstract functional (opr computational) relationships to one another, and to sensory inputs and motor outputs. See also Cognitivsm, Computationalism, Eliminativism, Turing Test."

      There is lots more to explore here, but I'd say based on what I've read so far, I'm more a functionalist than a structuralist - although oddly I feel I'm becoming more of a structuralist as I burrow into the nervous system. But I'll never be an orthopaedic structuralist... not ever.
      Diane
      www.dermoneuromodulation.com
      SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
      HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
      Neurotonics PT Teamblog
      Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
      Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
      @PainPhysiosCan
      WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
      @WCPTPTPN
      Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

      @dfjpt
      SomaSimple on Facebook
      @somasimple

      "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

      “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

      “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

      "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

      "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

      Comment


      • #4
        Diane, I just wanted to let you know the slow revolution is taking place. An Orthopaedic Division presentation recently emphasized that "no matter what your focus of treatment is, you are treating the nervous system". Patient awareness, cognitive aspects, neuroanatomy - all present and accounted for. A good beginning for a departure from the strict ortho-structural focus. The word "function" was well-represented.

        It is happening - slow, but the research oriented souls of the profession have taken the recent and past publications of Butler, Mosely, Elvey, Shacklock, Wall, etc etc. to heart, and are moving away a bit from the finicky approach of joint positions and angular faults.

        At least, that is what I concluded from their endorsed content of the presentation. :teeth:
        We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are - Anais Nin

        I suppose it's easier to believe something than it is to understand it.
        Cmdr. Chris Hadfield on rise of poor / pseudo science

        Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley

        We don't need a body to feel a body. Ronald Melzack

        Comment


        • #5
          That is good to hear - Canada may well move way ahead of Oz now.....

          Nari

          Comment


          • #6
            It's interesting Diane that you would come across that functionalist concept. I actually have called myself that several times when telling patients how I am different from the "traditional" PT realm. For example, I tell them that I will show them exercises that relate to their "functional" movement patterns during the day and thus are easily incorporated into movement that they already perform. I just hadn't taken that one step farther and had them add their own ideomotor activity. Yea for the functionalist's!

            Karie

            Comment


            • #7
              Diane
              Isn't it one thing to handle your own cognitive dissonance by learning to adapt to different approaches and knowing yourself it will resolve somehow by taking emotional distance, but isn't it even a bigger challenge to handle in the meanwhile your patient's one. I mean patients will notice that you're in confusion and not confident about a new method you adapted but didn't quite work out yet.
              i keep wondering.......................

              Comment


              • #8
                Yea indeed. I wonder if Sahrmann will ever melt away from thinking that all pain comes from joints?
                Bas, that's great news.
                Diane
                www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                @PainPhysiosCan
                WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                @WCPTPTPN
                Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                @dfjpt
                SomaSimple on Facebook
                @somasimple

                "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Line M,
                  Our posts crossed and I didn't see yours til just now.

                  Isn't it one thing to handle your own cognitive dissonance by learning to adapt to different approaches and knowing yourself it will resolve somehow by taking emotional distance, but isn't it even a bigger challenge to handle in the meanwhile your patient's one.
                  I should think so.

                  I mean patients will notice that you're in confusion and not confident about a new method you adapted but didn't quite work out yet.
                  Well, even if they don't note it consciously, something in their nervous system probably will pick up on one's own cognitive dissonance. So, best to know what you're doing (have a clear reasoning process you can explain to yourself/to them) before hand probably. Or at least think you know what you're doing..
                  Diane
                  www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                  SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                  HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                  Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                  Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                  Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                  @PainPhysiosCan
                  WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                  @WCPTPTPN
                  Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                  @dfjpt
                  SomaSimple on Facebook
                  @somasimple

                  "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                  “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                  “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                  "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                  "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    adaptive potential

                    I think adaptive potential is low for many people for multiple possible reasons for sometimes long periods of life. Overwhelm with life and its requirements is something I see in myself often enough. Maybe not taking up or even seeing the challenge is normal or even appropriate action for us. The effort, time,
                    interest/love :love:and dedication ( not to mention neuronal reconstruction) required to make the transitions being asked for are as Eric said ginormous. I get the feeling that many are clinging onto what they’ve already got like barnacles to rocks. The letting go required to learn anything radically different is too risky unless an individuals life circumstances either give space and support to creativity ,change and evolution or demand it through more ruthless occurrences.

                    and maybe theyre using there adaptive potential elsewhere to good effect

                    regards
                    Lloyd



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Knowing about and talking to them about allostasis can help a few move off the square that they are on, sometimes.. or at least get a bit of distance from/perspective on that within which they feel they are drowning. I've noticed that people like to be treated as though I consider them intelligent, like to know new words/ideas, and they immediately try to apply them to their own situation.
                      Last edited by Diane; 25-02-2007, 02:01 AM.
                      Diane
                      www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                      SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                      HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                      Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                      Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                      Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                      @PainPhysiosCan
                      WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                      @WCPTPTPN
                      Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                      @dfjpt
                      SomaSimple on Facebook
                      @somasimple

                      "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                      “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                      “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                      "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                      "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        "the external bureaucracies that run our show as we function as a cell in the larger social organisms and cultures. their regulation of our options can be as fundamental and coercive as that of the amygdala, liver or kidney." -from dericbownds
                        by and large the centre of gravity of the thinking of our culture at large( and much of the medical profession ) is still quite linear and simplistic and structuralist thinking is an expression of that.

                        I wonder if the development of systemic thinking is at least somewhat needed for the leaps required to "evolve" as a physio in the way visioned on this forum. Not just different content but new neuronal
                        pathways.





                        "This stage of development (systemic thinking) is made possible by a more complex deep structure that recognizes systems of relationships, which some (e.g., Commons et al, 2002; Rosenberg, 2002, 1988) call systematic reasoning. By all accounts of those who research adult development, this is found in a relatively minor segment of the population, so we owe it to ourselves to get some idea of what this stage is like. Rosenberg (2002) explains that "in its most industrious and sophisticated elaborations, it yields very general theories of personal, social, and political life and very self-conscious and careful strategies for observing, interpreting, and judging events" (pp. 134-135). The complexity of systematic reasoning is reflected in Rosenberg's recognition that he could not summarize it as is his more usual way of concluding chapters, nor can I do it justice. Introducing its characteristics as "integration, abstraction, and interpretation," (p. 134), he goes on to caution that
                        [L]ike all forms of thinking, [it] requires effort. It may therefore be conducted in a more or less methodical and elaborate manner. Where there is less effort, the result will be conceptual systems that are partially or loosely constructed and principles that are less abstract and less carefully deduced and applied. Although deficient, the basic quality of thinking and the structure of the understandings and evaluations in such cases are nonetheless systematic (Rosenberg, 2002, p. 135). "
                        The primary feature of systematic processes is the dynamic constant juxtapositioning in which "specific events, interactions, claims, preferences, conventions, and rituals are considered with reference either to the relevant individuals and communities or to the relevant principles of social exchange" (p. 215). This sheds light on the "?" functions in the illustration above. Every "invisible" relationship the thinker can identify gets examined. This reasoning and the evaluations it produces indicate social values of a more universal nature, and it recognizes that even energetically-advanced conclusions are constructed and subject to further improvement. We could expect to hear vigorous arguments based on strong principles but they are not likely to reflect a dogmatic attachment to the argument. The nature of this mental process results in Rosenberg's assertion that the familiar equilibrium-related principle of cognitive dissonance does not apply to systematic reasoning as it does to earlier structures. This is because the structure of the reasoning is looking for what else needs to be considered. It is an open thinking system in that regard.
                        this is a letter addressed within another community regarding changes of culture(within the community) and what could facilitate that .Not unrelated to this conversation
                        hope that link works
                        :love:
                        Lloyd
                        Last edited by lloyd; 25-02-2007, 10:35 PM. Reason: add explanation

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Adult Learning

                          Along the same topic, I thought I'd add some concepts from educational psychology about adult learning.

                          According to Jarvis, "the process of learning is located at the interface of people's biography and the sociocultural milieu in which they live, for it is at this intersection that experiences occur". Jarvis believes that "all learning begins with experience". He goes on to delineate nine different routes a person can take, once they experience something new. The nine routes are divided into three categories: nonlearning, nonreflective learning, and reflective learning. In the nonlearning responses, people are exposed to a new experience and do one of three things: either presume that what has worked in the past will work again, are too preoccupied to consider the new information, or chose to reject it. In the nonreflective realm, a learner can unconsciously internalize something, practice the new skill until it is learned or memorize the new information.

                          Reflective learning is the highest level in which the learner contemplates the new information, reflects on it, problem solves, and performs an experiment on the environment to determine the effect. However, Jarvis emphasizes that learning takes place in a social environment, not in isolation.

                          This brings us to the concept of sociocultural theory and adult learning, which states that as learning environments change, cognitive functioning also changes. Without going into too much detail here, there are many teaching methods built from these theories which might assist those of us interested in teaching functionalism to the rest of the PT community. First, there must be an environment of collaboration and mutual respect. Secondly, didactic teaching methods are becoming less effective and the shift is toward cognitive apprenticeships, interactions with more capable peers, and self-directed exploration and application. And lastly, for true learning to take place, the learners must experience intersubjectivity or a sense of shared meaning and shared situational definitions.

                          This may shed some light on the frustrations of not getting one's message across, and the reluctance of the PT community to abandon established sociocultural practices. Somasimple is a perfect example of a sociocultural teaching tool.

                          Sarah

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            http://www.guyclaxton.com/documents/...0Learnable.pdf

                            This man --ed psychlogist and reflective thinker (author of hare brain tortoise mind ) has influnced me .

                            I think we are an educational profession but seldom think this way ?

                            I like the analogy of the barnacle ! Damasio uses the metaphor of the sea annenomae opening with reward and pleasure and contracting with punishment and times of hardship.
                            I think Seligmans work on positive psychology is relevant here (this is a modern jazzed up version of Aristotle's eudominia- seperated by a few centuries) To have lasting satisfaction or a sense of mastery requires graded effort in a supportive environment ......The culture rewards transient pleasure and the aim is instant success --the economy is built on it so no wonder people find the notion of graded educational input and trial and error difficult ?
                            http://www.musicalfossils.com/body.html
                            I found this useful .....I am learning the flute but it applies to anything I feel?There is other useful stuff on this site which applies to lots of areas of life.......

                            ian

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Wow, thanks for all these thoughts. I agree Sarah, that this board is a teaching tool but its also a learning tool...

                              What I've always found slightly annoying about the profession we share, or maybe human primate social grooming professions in general, is the discrepancy between what we 'think' we know (as a profession) and how much we do not. (Our particular one isn't as bad as some, in fact I can think of one with an absolutely unconscionable level of arrogance associated with it... whenever I see my own acting more like it, I cringe and protest loudly.)

                              Still we are aren't nearly humble enough given that we launched out into the world to deal with human beings of all sorts with all kinds of issues and bodies that hurt, and no training other than to check findings against a list of memorized "maybe's", pick one off the list, act authoritative about our choice, push on this, wiggle that, tell the patient to do whatever, blame them for lack of compliance when they don't improve. We are not taught:
                              1. How the human organism evolved
                              2. How the human organism develops
                              3. How it works (not much anyway) biologically, psychologically
                              4. What pain is
                              5. What pain means
                              6. What our responsibility really is, to that individual in his/her context
                              7. How to design a therapeutic relationship, then maintain control of it invisibly
                              8. How to listen, how to "hear"
                              9. What the usual pitfalls are, how to avoid them.

                              On the plus side, we are taught how to learn, to note function, and to be ethical. At least, I hope we still are..

                              I think our profession could use one of those "fires" the woman in Lloyd's link talked about, so it can phoenix itself back up again.
                              Last edited by Diane; 26-02-2007, 05:08 PM.
                              Diane
                              www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                              SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                              HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                              Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                              Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                              Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                              @PainPhysiosCan
                              WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                              @WCPTPTPN
                              Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                              @dfjpt
                              SomaSimple on Facebook
                              @somasimple

                              "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                              “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                              “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                              "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                              Comment

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