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  • Originally posted by TexasOrtho View Post
    If you don't like what I say, you are welcome to ban me like others who happen to disagree with your point of view.
    Rod-
    No one has been banned here on Soma for disagreeing with any particular point of view. This statement of yours is absolutely untrue and not in keeping with the spirit of scientific rigor that we have tried very hard to maintain here. This and your pejorative characterization of others as "shepherds" or authorities in the clear absence of such is not appreciated, nor should it be tolerated.

    People have been banned for their deliberate unwillingness to engage in a scientific debate, for repeatedly asserting refuted points, for ad hominems against members, or for posting with an obvious intent to disturb without advancing the discussion.

    Just so we're clear on that.
    Jason Silvernail DPT, DSc, FAAOMPT
    Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy
    Fellowship-Trained in Orthopedic Manual Therapy

    Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist


    The views expressed in this entry are those of the author alone and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the US Government.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jason Silvernail View Post
      Rod-
      No one has been banned here on Soma for disagreeing with any particular point of view. This statement of yours is absolutely untrue and not in keeping with the spirit of scientific rigor that we have tried very hard to maintain here. This and your pejorative characterization of others as "shepherds" or authorities in the clear absence of such is not appreciated, nor should it be tolerated.

      People have been banned for their deliberate unwillingness to engage in a scientific debate, for repeatedly asserting refuted points, for ad hominems against members, or for posting with an obvious intent to disturb without advancing the discussion.

      Just so we're clear on that.
      Clear...now if those you defend would consistently exemplify that ideal outlined in bold above, I don't think there would be an issue. However, saying treatment x does not or never will influence outcome y without anything backing it up flies directly in the face of the ideal of "scientific rigor" as it is an "opinion". Lot's of the same opinions by a group of individuals doesn't transform them into facts.

      You and others seem to take issue with my communication style just as I take issue with Barrett's and Diane's from time to time. You will have to decide if you are willing to tolerate this as I've been this way since I first raised my hand in grade school. After a couple of graduate degrees, teaching at university, running a successful practice, and beginning my doctoral studies, these dreadful behaviors have regretfully been etched into the fiber of my being. It will not change.

      You of course as self-proclaimed arbiter and moderators on this forum can ban me at any time you choose. I won't fuss, but will chuckle to myself that you have a pretty thin skin.

      Don't feel isolated. I constantly question the opinions of Paris, Robin McKenzie, our priest Father Bob, Dad, etc...as opinions should be questioned and scrutinized until they reveal facts.

      Just so we're clear on that. Verstehen sie mich?
      Last edited by HeadStrongPT; 22-03-2008, 03:33 PM.
      Rod Henderson, PT, ScD, OCS
      It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into. — Jonathan Swift

      Comment


      • Just to be clear Rod, saying "So sayeth the shepherd" is NOT questioning. Possible alternatives,if you actually disagreed with the statement, could include things like:

        1.) What evidence supports your conclusion?
        2.) Why do you think that?
        3.) Soon you'll see why you've remained deluded for so long.

        Do you see the difference?
        "I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris

        Comment


        • I'm with Jon. Calling me a shepherd is insulting not only to me but to anyone who agrees with me. It's juvenile and thoughtless and purposely inflammatory. I can't imagine that any of these are qualities will advance the discussion about the nature of contracture or its management. Your finger pointing and "they said it first" reply to Jason fits into the same category of immature behavior. You claim to have always been like this, but growing up is supposed to change us in precisely this way.

          Congrats on all you've accomplished by the way, but no one here asked for a list. I don't see how it's relevant when your written performance here overshadows every bit of it.
          Last edited by Barrett Dorko; 22-03-2008, 04:05 PM.
          Barrett L. Dorko

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jon Newman View Post
            Just to be clear Rod, saying "So sayeth the shepherd" is NOT questioning. Possible alternatives,if you actually disagreed with the statement, could include things like:

            1.) What evidence supports your conclusion?
            2.) Why do you think that?
            3.) Soon you'll see why you've remained deluded for so long.

            Do you see the difference?
            There's a big difference Jon. Your recommendation is much more gracious and gentlemanly-these are probably pretty good reflections of who you are as a person. Unfortunately, you are unlikely to get that side of me in the face of authority figures - this is also a good reflection of me as a person. Again, not sure it will change but I'll always listen...
            Rod Henderson, PT, ScD, OCS
            It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into. — Jonathan Swift

            Comment


            • Good morning Barrett.

              Calling me a shepherd is insulting not only to me but to anyone who agrees with me. It's juvenile and thoughtless and purposely inflammatory.
              You forgot hilarious.

              I can't imagine that any of these are qualities will advance the discussion about the nature of contracture or its management.
              They are about as progressive as you stating no manual therapy will ever change a joint contracture. My response was as impetuous as yours was dogmatic.
              Last edited by HeadStrongPT; 22-03-2008, 04:17 PM.
              Rod Henderson, PT, ScD, OCS
              It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into. — Jonathan Swift

              Comment


              • That's fine but then don't paint yourself as "questioning" when you are not questioning at all. Just so you know, if you do get banned it won't be because you disagree with us.
                "I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris

                Comment


                • Maybe I've missed something but the term "joint" contracture is new to me, and when I say contracture I invariably mean "muscle."

                  Is this application of "joint" to the word contracture something I should know about?
                  Barrett L. Dorko

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Barrett Dorko View Post
                    Maybe I've missed something but the term "joint" contracture is new to me, and when I say contracture I invariably mean "muscle."

                    Is this application of "joint" to the word contracture something I should know about?
                    I think it's more of a reference to location more than a specific structure. Who knows - again we are missing an operational definition. One definition (hardly unified) I've seen is "the chronic loss of motion at a joint from non-bony tissue."
                    Rod Henderson, PT, ScD, OCS
                    It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into. — Jonathan Swift

                    Comment


                    • Obviously some things once shortened in a certain way, like muscle that has acquired a contracture, cannot be lengthened via the forces and means available to someone performing some method of manual care. Other structures may resist motion but can be changed.
                      Barrett L. Dorko

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Barrett Dorko View Post
                        Obviously some things once shortened in a certain way, like muscle that has acquired a contracture, cannot be lengthened via the forces and means available to someone performing some method of manual care. Other structures may resist motion but can be changed.
                        I agree with this statement. What do you believe is responsible for the increase in motion following a chronic loss of motion? It often does improve so there must be some explanation that elludes us in the absense of tissue elongation.
                        Rod Henderson, PT, ScD, OCS
                        It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into. — Jonathan Swift

                        Comment


                        • Ja, Rod, klar. Aber...

                          Rod-

                          I believe you set yourself up for frustration here by assuming that the statements of others are opinions without support.
                          Perhaps, just to try something new, you could ask someone for a reference or explanation to back up a statement they make before assuming that it is some sort of platitude that you are here to prove wrong. Jon provided a list of suggested questions.

                          We've had many conversations here about the nature of manual care and human physiology, and it has increased the understanding of our members quite a bit. Many times, someone here will say something that is borne of that understanding. If you doubt the truth of the statement, feel free to honestly question it without resorting to an overreaction or pejorative characterization of the speaker. While this may be acceptable as "discussion" in the many venues you've listed above, it will not be considered such here.
                          Jason Silvernail DPT, DSc, FAAOMPT
                          Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy
                          Fellowship-Trained in Orthopedic Manual Therapy

                          Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist


                          The views expressed in this entry are those of the author alone and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the US Government.

                          Comment


                          • Alles klar. Wir werden sehen, wie es ausarbeitet. Ich bin auch starrsinnig und unentschuldigend.
                            Rod Henderson, PT, ScD, OCS
                            It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into. — Jonathan Swift

                            Comment


                            • We'll see how it goes, indeed.
                              Jason Silvernail DPT, DSc, FAAOMPT
                              Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy
                              Fellowship-Trained in Orthopedic Manual Therapy

                              Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist


                              The views expressed in this entry are those of the author alone and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the US Government.

                              Comment


                              • Wie viel tut Sie und ich mit einander übereinstimmen muss, bevor mir erlaubt wird, unentschuldigend und ebenso starrsinnig zu sein?

                                I spoke German before I spoke English and get a kick anytime I can use it in conversation.
                                Rod Henderson, PT, ScD, OCS
                                It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into. — Jonathan Swift

                                Comment

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