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Bypassing the Will

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  • #76
    Carl Zimmer's site has been an interesting one for a while - right down to the funny haha comments made by some posters!

    Mental dysfunction (mild or severe) and its resultant behaviours seems to be the place to start in order to understand what we want to call 'normal' behaviour. After all, Sacks, Rama and the others came to understand the 'normal' brain function better after studying 'abnormal' behaviours; the clue to the nonconscious might be there in the social misfit who seems to be consciously breaking cultural laws.

    Nari

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    • #77
      In the new site Ian put up on noi Library today, this essay appears. In it, near the end, this appears:
      With artificial cochlea, for example, deaf persons say that they can hear again. However, Dr. Merzenich, a neurophysiologist from the University of California at San Francisco, says that "actually, these inputs to the brain are distorted. What seems to happen is that the brain somehow adjusts its connections in order to make sense out of the inputs it receives". This clear demonstration of plasticity in the human brain leads to the hope that scientists will be able to develop other similar feats in the future.
      (My bold- it seems to be a piece of what this thread is about.)

      (Thanks for the book tip Jon.)
      Diane
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      • #78
        Here is my problem,

        If we get an event at t1 and this event has three components (heat, touch and we're seeing it).

        There is a delay linked to pathways.
        There is a delay for processing.
        And a last one where we are re-recreating the environnement. It's a virtual world.

        If we are conscious of the event at time = t8 (for me) it doesn't mean that we aren't at time < t8. We are just unaware?
        Attached Files
        Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
        We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

        Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
        If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
        bernard

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        • #79
          The major problem is overlapping events =>

          We are conscious of an past event and at the same time, events must be proceeded. IMHO, it's a way to short circuit some processes and because they are known.
          Some conclusions: conscious events are based upon non conscious ones. At t=0, only unconscious "things" may exist. It fits the Damasio point of view since we need some prior events to make decisions. The system need some food to work before consciousness become available.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by bernard; 21-03-2006, 12:10 PM.
          Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
          We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

          Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
          If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
          bernard

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          • #80
            Some data on time intervals:

            The issue of free will is a old as the history of philosophy. We all have subjectively the impression of being free when we carry out a voluntary act. Recent experiments, however, have shown that the subjective experience of a voluntary act and its cause can be two different events. Whilst the brain is approx. 800 ms active before the movement, the subjective experience of the conscious will occurs at approx. 200 ms before the movement. In other words: subjects experience a conscious will when they interpret that their own thoughts are the cause of their decisions, which seems to be nothing more than an illusion.
            An R Acad Nac Med (Madr). 2003;120(3):489-97
            Eric Matheson, PT

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            • #81
              Hi all,

              I posted an abstract about timers =>
              http://www.somasimple.com/forums/showthread.php?t=552
              supporting this thread

              We are living in the Past!
              Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
              We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

              Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
              If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
              bernard

              Comment


              • #82
                I am resurecting a rather old thread back into discussion in regards to some converstation that has been happening in a study group about motivation and benefits to outcomes with patients. See here and please join in if you want.

                I was referred back this thread by reading Barrett's post a few days ago and it triggered with the current discussion on our study group, that might be served to bring to others in a post to get others feedback to my question.

                In the study group discussion this was my question?

                This is what drew me to this study. How do we motivate someone and can we measure if we do? If we can do these things, what methods are the best for results both short and long term. Interesting Barrett just today posted about an old discussion that was here in regards to Bypassing the Will. I read with interest and probably will need to reread a few times to try and bring it together for myself. If we are motivating someone are we working on their Free Will (if it is adjustable).

                To me the interesting thing was that it showed increase in motivation (I am not familiar with these new validated measurement tools used in the study either). While it showed increase compliance with doing exercises during and 1 month post. But how long will this motivation last? In the Friedrich study it looks as if it doesn't make it to the 1 or 5 year mark (but can not tell with certainty as they used different measurement tools). This to me is of interest. If someone is going to make long term changes (if that is needed, probably undetermined in regards to injury reduction) does the motivation need to last longer then our short few weeks of intervention? Do we need some format for longer term follow up to progress these changes longer.
                Hoping to get others thoughts on this.
                Kory Zimney, PT, DPT

                http://koryzimney.blogspot.com

                "Study principles not methods, a mind that can grasp principles will create its own methods." - Gill

                "All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them." - Galileo Galilei

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