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  • Researchers Pinpoint 27 States of Emotion

    http://neurosciencenews.com/emotion-27-states-7431/

    Jo Bowyer
    Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jo Bowyer View Post
      Researchers Pinpoint 27 States of Emotion


      http://neurosciencenews.com/emotion-27-states-7431/
      I use the following chart when a client is so divorced from their emotions that they don't even know where in the body the emotion sits, (usually happens when I'm getting nowhere with usual treatments). A client might say she 'feels bad' but not know if it's fear, sadness, guilt, anger or what. That's a very uncomfortable situation to have a strong negative emotion and then have such strong aversion on top of that.

      When the client can locate and label it, sometimes that helps a bit. But mostly it depends upon what level of safety is perceived concurrently. Safety + (label and locate) = release. No personal information or content is asked for. Just noticing the physical aspect of the emotion and allowing it as much as possible, maybe combined with some breath awareness (to add another layer of safety via parasympathetic activation). If content if offered up, it's acknowledged and that's all - no analysis, no counseling, no advice, no reaction. Pain re-assessment is important however: "how is your pain now compared to before?" and "how is the emotion compared to before?" and "could they be linked?".

      "Which chart is a match?" http://www.npr.org/sections/health-s...-warm-all-over
      Last edited by EG-Physio; 08-09-2017, 06:04 AM.

      Comment


      • One of my most complex, complex pain patients turned up yesterday. This person has been working away for a while, hasn't been able to get into London for months and has developed a brutal C5, C6, neuralgia with C5 sensory alteration as the icing on the cake so to speak. We have been in contact via phone and emails. As the person was giving an update, the chest tightened and they were unable to breathe. I handed over a glass of water and talked about the fabulous job the local GP and physio/osteos are doing and please be sure to pass on my compliments. It was all this person needed to hear, along with a little bit of deconstruction of some very minor science errors that had crept in. The breathing returned to normal, colour returned to the cheeks and we were able to fine tune the type and amount of movement and loading currently needed.
        Last edited by Jo Bowyer; 08-09-2017, 07:08 AM.
        Jo Bowyer
        Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
        "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

        Comment


        • EG-Physio
          EG-Physio commented
          Editing a comment
          Did it help the neuralgia?

      • Yup,

        But the fact that the person has stopped catastrophizing about it helped more, they didn't look unwell when they walked out.
        Last edited by Jo Bowyer; 08-09-2017, 09:37 AM.
        Jo Bowyer
        Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
        "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

        Comment


        • EG-Physio
          EG-Physio commented
          Editing a comment
          Good, so you saw the power of completely surrendering to an emotion that is in full effect, whilst simultaneously avoiding the inner distancing. Paying detailed attention to her pain, whilst registering and recognizing the pain it dredges up in you... yet still surrendering to both of these. Good. Only 1 in 10 million therapists know that little trick. Everyone else tries to remedy what they have defined as a problem, thereby locking it in place. That defining occurs in a nano-second and is totally unconscious.
          Last edited by EG-Physio; 09-09-2017, 10:22 AM.

        • Jo Bowyer
          Jo Bowyer commented
          Editing a comment
          "Good, so you saw the power of completely surrendering to an emotion that is in full effect, whilst simultaneously avoiding the inner distancing. Paying detailed attention to her pain, whilst registering and recognizing the pain it dredges up in you... yet still surrendering to both of these. Good. Only 1 in 10 million therapists know that little trick."

          It's rare, but not that rare, admittedly I have come across it more in doctors and nurses than I have in physiotherapists. I think that you make a lot of assumptions about the lived experience of those who post here. I also think that you would be a good deal less forthright if you were not lurking beneath an invisibility cloak.
          Last edited by Jo Bowyer; 09-09-2017, 11:00 AM.

        • Jo Bowyer
          Jo Bowyer commented
          Editing a comment
          "Everyone else tries to remedy what they have defined as a problem, thereby locking it in place." #349.5

          Problems can be deconstructed by patient/therapist dyads, or referred on when they are outwith scope of practice.

      • The coming-of-age con

        https://aeon.co/essays/why-the-comin...28936-69418129

        How can you go about finding 'who you really are' if the whole idea of the one true self is a big fabrication
        Jo Bowyer
        Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
        "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

        Comment


        • EG-Physio
          EG-Physio commented
          Editing a comment
          First step in a movement towards realizing the true self is congruence. The guy who wrote that has been reading the wrong material.
          Last edited by EG-Physio; 09-09-2017, 09:28 AM.

      • He appears to have done more reading than I discern from your posts EG.
        Jo Bowyer
        Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
        "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

        Comment


        • EG-Physio
          EG-Physio commented
          Editing a comment
          Will: You people baffle me. You spend all this money on beautiful, fancy books--and they're the wrong fuckin' books.
          Sean: You think so?
          Will: Whatever blows your hair back.

        • Jo Bowyer
          Jo Bowyer commented
          Editing a comment
          At least Will read the books.

          If you are playing the high IQ card, I can probably trump you on that one as well.

      • The face you show the world and the inner (true) self are supposed to be the same thing. Congruence - that's the first task.

        That aeon writer has a lot of very wrong views which will lead people up the garden path. He is clearly suffering a Peter Pan complex.

        He quotes philosopher William James: ‘Properly speaking, a man has as many social selves as there are individuals who recognise him and carry an image of him in their mind.’

        Ughhhh! That is terrible. That is so sick. It's like a prescription for pain, illness and disease in one sentence.
        Last edited by EG-Physio; 10-09-2017, 10:59 AM.

        Comment


        • The face you show the world and the inner (true) self are supposed to be the same thing. Congruence - that's the first task.
          Sez who? The guy/gal who is pulling your strings?



          That aeon writer has a lot of very wrong views which will lead people up the garden path. He is clearly suffering a Peter Pan complex.
          He was presumably commissioned by aeon to express his views. Unless you are a psychologist and have assessed him, you can't know whether or not he has a Peter Pan complex. When I was working within an MDT, I left that type of labeling to the talking therapists.



          He quotes William James: ‘Properly speaking, a man has as many social selves as there are individuals who recognise him and carry an image of him in their mind.’

          Ughhhh! That is terrible. That is so sick. It's like a prescription for pain, illness and disease in one sentence.
          I particularly liked this, my daughter's salience networks will process me as Mummy, her friends' salience networks will have priors for me as Diana's mum, and/or "myosteopath" depending whether or not their parents once brought them in for treatment.

          The piece is full of quotes, as it should be. The reader then has more information with regards to the author's frame of reference.

          It didn't make me feel sick, pose a threat to my salience networks, or so far as I know, worsen my eye disease. I posted it because I thought that it was a well written piece.
          Last edited by Jo Bowyer; 10-09-2017, 02:27 PM.
          Jo Bowyer
          Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
          "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

          Comment


          • But are you the same self, in yourself, with each of them? Or are you switching roles? If you're switching, which one is the real you?

            I still find myself stepping into a role when I'm at work, and it really annoys me. I want to aim for maximum congruence, because I've seen what a moderate amount can achieve. Anything that's not fully 'me' requires quite an expenditure of energy - the energy of being fake. Strangely, one of the top therapists I ever met said to me "you know I'm not like this at home" in a conspiratorial tone. Maybe he was aware of a slight gap between the two selves and that's a good thing, because he always seemed very natural to me. He can't have been too fake, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to see 40+ patients/day, every day.

            Professionalism is a funny thing - both necessary (I think), and fake. I find it hard to reconcile.

            Is professionalism necessary?
            Last edited by EG-Physio; 10-09-2017, 02:59 PM.

            Comment


            • I am the same self, but I might do and say different things.

              I am more likely to get under the table with an autistic kid than I would be with a peer of the realm, or a consultant surgeon both of whom could be as eccentric as the kid and equally reluctant to get on the table.

              Professionalism is a funny thing - both necessary (I think), and fake. I find it hard to reconcile.
              It is, isn't it....

              Is professionalism necessary?
              OMG Yes!

              I have to be the best I can be for everyone, whether they are the first, last or somewhere in the middle of the day. During the week, I start my day close to home and then take a train to London, which makes a nice break. A couple of days, I am near home all day and on Sundays I am only in London. Occasionally, I have to see people who come over to the UK for treatment and they have to come to the rural practice for one or two of the sessions which I find disorientating, but they don't.

              I am very happy to deal with an emergency in whatever I stand up in, but I do like to have a tunic on for work. I am fairly scruffy in my style of dress, but the tunic looks smart and the act of putting it on seems to get me out of the starting gate, however tired I might feel.
              Jo Bowyer
              Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
              "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

              Comment


              • Actually, I had a bit of a weird situation today in that a receptionist I once worked with came in for treatment, she is now a very successful psychotherapist. I don't know how it is elsewhere, but in the UK, it often seems to be generally accepted that the receptionist is the most important person in the practice (apart from the patient) because s(he) keeps the wheels turning, although there is often a bit of banter during breaks. The receptionist in the clinic was quite surprised at the way this person was talking to me on the way out until I told her that we had once worked together.
                Last edited by Jo Bowyer; 10-09-2017, 08:48 PM.
                Jo Bowyer
                Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
                "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

                Comment


                • EG-Physio
                  EG-Physio commented
                  Editing a comment
                  "generally accepted that the receptionist is the most important person in the practice (apart from the patient)"

                  NO ONE is MORE important than you. Not the receptionist, not the patient, not even if the patient is a precious consultant physician. I'm going to have to hypnotize you some new beliefs. The receptionist is there to make your job easier, and the patient is lucky to get a slice of your time - think of it that way.
                  Last edited by EG-Physio; 11-09-2017, 02:24 AM.

                • Jo Bowyer
                  Jo Bowyer commented
                  Editing a comment
                  "NO ONE is MORE important than you."

                  Believe me I have been there.

                  In a strange way you are right, because without a brain there is no output of a "me" who can interact. Those with severe brain injury/illness have reflex responses. Of course we all have these as basic kit, but a great deal in the way of other functions and apps in addition.
                  Last edited by Jo Bowyer; 11-09-2017, 10:09 AM.

              • Originally posted by Jo Bowyer View Post

                1-- I am more likely to get under the table with an autistic kid

                2-- OMG Yes! I have to be the best I can be for everyone
                1-- I don't know if you mean that figuratively, but I wouldn't follow an autistic kid under a table. By this I mean I wouldn't make any effort to connect or win their cooperation. They don't want an authority figure who is supplicatory, because supplication is professional behaviour - it's fake! A genuine expression of anger and frustration would do better, so long as a genuine expression of warmth acceptance follows when that's the true inner experience.

                2-- Why do you have to? Have you ever allowed yourself to make a half-arsed effort? It's worth experimenting.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by EG-Physio View Post

                  1-- I don't know if you mean that figuratively, but I wouldn't follow an autistic kid under a table. By this I mean I wouldn't make any effort to connect or win their cooperation. They don't want an authority figure who is supplicatory, because supplication is professional behaviour - it's fake! A genuine expression of anger and frustration would do better, so long as a genuine expression of warmth acceptance follows when that's the true inner experience.
                  Supplication moi?

                  I get under the table because that is where they are. Do you have much experience of working with people on the spectrum?


                  2-- Why do you have to? Have you ever allowed yourself to make a half-arsed effort? It's worth experimenting.
                  Making a half arsed effort is an excellent way of honing skill in target sports, I have a bit of a thing about throwing stuff in the bin from a distance, the coding of the misses are part of the learning curve, I don't think about it much, I just watch the improvement.
                  Last edited by Jo Bowyer; 11-09-2017, 09:21 AM.
                  Jo Bowyer
                  Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
                  "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

                  Comment


                  • Jo Bowyer
                    Jo Bowyer commented
                    Editing a comment
                    They go under the table due to sensory overload

                  • EG-Physio
                    EG-Physio commented
                    Editing a comment
                    yes, and the overload creates a high level of anxiety which needs soothing. Best to have someone in a position of authority who models safety behaviours with a very dominant frame.

                  • Jo Bowyer
                    Jo Bowyer commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I am in a position of authority in that the buck stops with me as regards health and safety. I rarely dominate though, I'd much rather look for opportunities and facilitate a favourable outcome, in such a way as they perceive it as having emerged from them. Someone small enough can be picked up while in the throes of a full body tantrum and supported while moving through three dimensional space rather than flatland.

                • I have to be the best I can be for everyone.
                  It is courtesy pure and simple. Treatment is expensive and some travel considerable distance.
                  Jo Bowyer
                  Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
                  "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

                  Comment


                  • NO ONE is MORE important than you. Not the receptionist, not the patient, not even if the patient is a precious consultant physician. I'm going to have to hypnotize you some new beliefs. The receptionist is there to make your job easier, and the patient is lucky to get a slice of your time - think of it that way.
                    Yeah I have come across several of these, who thought that they were a gift to the profession and were foolish enough to let it show on applications for posts. Most of them want to work in sport.
                    Jo Bowyer
                    Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
                    "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

                    Comment


                    • Jo Bowyer
                      Jo Bowyer commented
                      Editing a comment
                      The self is a construct, an output, it's priors are constantly updated. I think of my expressed self as being no more or less significant than a series of farts. I can't speak for others.
                      Last edited by Jo Bowyer; 11-09-2017, 10:52 AM.

                    • EG-Physio
                      EG-Physio commented
                      Editing a comment
                      That comment came from under the table. I'm not getting under there with you though.

                    • Jo Bowyer
                      Jo Bowyer commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I am flattered that you gave it a few nanoseconds consideration.
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