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  • Johnny says:

    If one moves in a fashion that relieves pain or feels best, it could be assumed they are reducing mechanical deformation or tension.
    There is a distinction I make between conscious and unconscious, between planned and unplanned and choreographed and non-choreographed motion that I have the sense that is important. There's a lot to be said for motion that relieves pain, but what motivates it is, to me, also significant.

    Does what happens around the poker table teach us anything?
    Last edited by Barrett Dorko; 21-12-2015, 12:37 PM.
    Barrett L. Dorko

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    • My observation of poker tables has been a reduction of movement and expression for those in the higher ranks. The 'tell' is talked about in those lesser experienced players.
      I may not be as smart as most people, but I'm sure as hell not as dumb....
      "The views expressed here are my own and do not reflect the views of my employer."

      Comment


      • Well, "tells" eventually show themselves. Prior to that, their elimination are potentially painful, I guess. I hear from poker players that it's a painful pursuit.

        From House of Games: "The things we want...we can do them or not do them, but we can't hide them."

        Don't detectives look for "tells" in suspects? Is there a "no touching" rule unwritten in poker? Isn't touching expected of the therapist?
        Barrett L. Dorko

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        • I was out for a drive today and couldn't help seeing countless fitness centers, wellness centers, holistic and integrative medicine clinics, pain clinics, heart care facilities, pain focused signs, diet promotions/locations, medical facilities, chiropractic and physical therapy clinics.

          Shouldn't everyone be fit, well, low BMI, low BP, cholesterol, non-diabetic and pain free?
          I may not be as smart as most people, but I'm sure as hell not as dumb....
          "The views expressed here are my own and do not reflect the views of my employer."

          Comment


          • Johnny says:

            Shouldn't everyone be fit, well, low BMI, low BP, cholesterol, non-diabetic and pain free?
            That's arguable. I'm more likely to think of people as human. It's not always pretty.
            Barrett L. Dorko

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            • http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/arti...icleid=2481158

              Exercise....it's good for you...
              I may not be as smart as most people, but I'm sure as hell not as dumb....
              "The views expressed here are my own and do not reflect the views of my employer."

              Comment


              • Johnny,

                I read it. It means nothing to me.
                Barrett L. Dorko

                Comment


                • Barrett,

                  I'm not surprised by your response. I'd be curious to hear what impresses you with regard to research? From my limited time here I'd guess about one article.
                  I may not be as smart as most people, but I'm sure as hell not as dumb....
                  "The views expressed here are my own and do not reflect the views of my employer."

                  Comment


                  • Barrett,

                    How could this mean nothing to you?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mikal Solstad View Post
                      Barrett,

                      How could this mean nothing to you?
                      https://www.somasimple.com/forums/sh...&postcount=191

                      There is a paradigm
                      Jo Bowyer
                      Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
                      "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

                      Comment


                      • That we should move rather than not is something we don't know? Exercise, as a prescription, is rather an old idea.

                        Turning movement into money is more recent. Demonstrating that it helps in cases of pain isn't exactly news, but whether one movement is preferable over another is something that demands a defensible premise and a deep model that is as accurate as can be made. I refer rarely to the study done because of its size and the fact it was the only one done on ideomotion and pain, to my knowledge.

                        The meaning of a statement has to do with its insightfulness, simplicity and originality. Telling us to exercise "means nothing" to me because it is an old notion.

                        Can't we do better?
                        Barrett L. Dorko

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Barrett Dorko View Post
                          That we should move rather than not is something we don't know? Exercise, as a prescription, is rather an old idea.

                          Turning movement into money is more recent. Demonstrating that it helps in cases of pain isn't exactly news, but whether one movement is preferable over another is something that demands a defensible premise and a deep model that is as accurate as can be made. I refer rarely to the study done because of its size and the fact it was the only one done on ideomotion and pain, to my knowledge.

                          The meaning of a statement has to do with its insightfulness, simplicity and originality. Telling us to exercise "means nothing" to me because it is an old notion.

                          Can't we do better?
                          An old idea, yes, but with plenty to support it use for treatment and prevention of numerous conditions; both pathological and now low back pain. It may not be high quality, but its something. Better than anything to date. The evidence supports the notion of no preferable method or movement. We are all unique and different. That being said, I am simply providing a reference for others to provide patients and/or colleagues.

                          What do you mean by "can't we do better?"
                          I may not be as smart as most people, but I'm sure as hell not as dumb....
                          "The views expressed here are my own and do not reflect the views of my employer."

                          Comment


                          • If you mean all exercise is helpful for prevention and recovery than I guess that's good enough.

                            Why are we trained at all?

                            Is low back pain not occasionally pathological?
                            Last edited by Barrett Dorko; 12-01-2016, 02:29 PM.
                            Barrett L. Dorko

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Barrett Dorko View Post
                              If you mean all exercise is helpful for prevention and recovery than I guess that's good enough.

                              Why are we trained at all?

                              Is low back pain not occasionally pathological?
                              We are trained as first contact practitioners. The fact that not all of us who post on this global forum are allowed to practice as such is, I suspect, a matter of serious concern for governing bodies in the countries who have not yet managed to managed to rectify this.
                              Jo Bowyer
                              Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
                              "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Barrett Dorko View Post
                                If you mean all exercise is helpful for prevention and recovery than I guess that's good enough.

                                Why are we trained at all?

                                Is low back pain not occasionally pathological?
                                Well, moderate quality evidence that exercise, in combination with education, is likely to prevent back pain lends further support the method of the majority of frequent posters on this site.

                                I'm not sure about you Barrett, but I was trained to appraise the relevant literature and try to apply it to the patient in front of me to the best of my ability. Since patients with LBP comprise a considerable portion of my caseload, and most ask "How can I prevent this from happening again?", I think this study has merit.

                                I was trained to screen the patient for causes of their LBP which would require medical consultation and treatment and refer when indicated.

                                I was trained to educate the patient (although I had to seek that training out after graduation). They're unlikely to get this education from any other healthcare provider but me.

                                I was initially trained to prescribe exercise very exactly, and in hindsight, probably in far greater detail than is necessary. But I can relate to my patients and encourage them to move more rather than less, exercise some rather than not at all. I wasn't trained in this manner of interaction, at least not in school. I assume that I learned it, likely from my parents, friends, and most likely, from my patients.
                                Jess Brown, PT, OCS

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