Myofascial Release; The Great Conversation

[Diane]

I propose, Bernard, that we move this thread and the other one on Schleip's "fascia-nating" take on fascia, comments, highlighting and all, and append them to the runaway MFR thread. That way all the info is clumped in one place. The deaf and blind may never get the info tuned in properly, but perhaps scads of visitors/readers/ questioners/seekers/thinkers will have more info upon which to base their thinking. And from a rolfer who "thought" his own way out of the jaws of the two-headed sea monster, no less.

[bernard]

Do you think it will help?

Unfortunately it doesn't work for deafness. :embarasse

[Diane]

I SEE!!

Do you think it will help? Schleip seems to be miles ahead of Barnes et al.. good on him.

[bernard]

I edited the first post for glasses owners.

[Diane]

I don't know. It might not be enough to tell them the water hole exists. It might not be enough to tell them where to find it. It might not be enough to lead them to it. It might be necessary to insert IV lines.

[bernard]

Diane,

I put the paper in the intent they will complete their knowledge.
SomaSimple provides a free learning library for all users. The red part is intended for some psychic blindness seen on the site. Education remains our main goal.

[Diane]

Do you suppose the MFRers have ever considered your bolded bits Bernard?
Do you suppose the MFRers have ever read the part you put in red?

[bernard]

Fascial plasticity – a new neurobiological explanation Part 2

Fascial plasticity – a new neurobiological explanation Part 2


Robert Schleip,

Cert. Rolfing Instructor & Feldenkrais Practitioner, Rolfing Faculty, European Rolfing Association e.V., Kapuzinerstr. 25, D-80337 Munich, Germany

Available online 25 March 2003.



Abstract

Part 1 of this two part article showed that immediate fascial responsiveness to manipulation cannot be explained by its mechanical properties alone. Fascia is densely innervated by mechanoreceptors which are responsive to myofascial manipulation. They are intimately connected with the central nervous system and specially with the autonomic nervous system. Part 2 of the article shows how stimulation of these receptors can trigger viscosity changes in the ground substance. The discovery and implications of the existence of fascial smooth muscle cells are of special interest in relation to fibromyalgia, amongst other conditions. An attitudinal shift is suggested, from a mechanical body concept towards a cybernetic model, in which the practitioner's intervention are seen as stimulation for self-regulatory processes within the client's organism. Practical implications of this approach in myofascial manipulation will be explored.



Corresponding author. Correspondence to: R. Schleip

[bernard]

Fascial plasticity – a new neurobiological explanation: Part 1

Fascial plasticity – a new neurobiological explanation: Part 1


Robert Schleip,

Robert Schleip MA Rolfing Faculty, European Rolfing Association e.V., Kapuzinerstr. 2S, D-80337, Munich, Germany

Received 1 April 2002; revised 1 May 2002; accepted 1 June 2002. ; Available online 1 February 2003.



Abstract

In myofascial manipulation an immediate tissue release is often felt under the working hand. This amazing feature has traditionally been attributed to mechanical properties of the connective tissue. Yet studies have shown that either much stronger forces or longer durations would be required for a permanent viscoelastic deformation of fascia. Fascia nevertheless is densely innervated by mechanoreceptors which are responsive to manual pressure. Stimulation of these sensory receptors has been shown to lead to a lowering of sympathetic tonus as well as a change in local tissue viscosity. Additionally smooth muscle cells have been discovered in fascia, which seem to be involved in active fascial contractility. Fascia and the autonomic nervous system appear to be intimately connected.
A change in attitude in myofascial practitioners from a mechanical perspective toward an inclusion of the self-regulatory dynamics of the nervous system is suggested.



Corresponding author. Correspondence to: Robert Schleip

[bernard]

Hi All,

Here is the pdf version of the thread =>

[Diane]

I support your request to close the thread Pablo, and your decision to close it Bernard. The topic had a good run but now it's just going in dull circles. Time to put it out of its misery.

[bernard]

Hello All,

Well, it seems that I was blocked from this site! I had to log off and re-register under a different name. Barrett, have you been up to your old tricks again? (For those of you not familiar with what I am referring to, Barrett got in a bit of hot water when he apparently deleted a few posts of someone who was challenging his beliefs on RehabEdge). So, for those of you in charge, wouldn't Bernard's posting of an obscene word, not once but twice, qualify for such a treatment? I would refer Bernard to the Forum Rules, below: Oh, I forgot, he is the admin! Above the rules, Bernard?

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The owners of SomaSimple Forums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

Seems a bit hypocritical.

Walt,

There is nothing with Barrett about the problems you experienced.
I had exactly the same. Diane and Jon Newman asked if there was a server problem. It was the case.
I have the email about the failure that happenned, if you're interested.
I saw this morning a walt fritz logged! Wasn't you?

Before making such accusation, it was simple and possible to ask about the difficulty?

I suppose the word you estimate obscene and vulgar is bullshit?

Seriously?

Bullshit

Perhaps it was the association with Barnes that became vulgar?

I think the thread is going nowhere and perhaps its real place is in The Rubish Cube?

I agree with you, Pablo. I lock the thread.

Is someone wants to continue the discussion about MFR, just create a new thread.

This one has evidently shown the continual absence of response that readers may normally get about their askings.

[pablo]

Can we end this thread?

Walt or anyone, can you cite some studies on the effectiveness of MFR?
Let's see if it's like aspirin.

Sorry, I can't give you any studies on the effectiveness of Simple Contact (in case you ask) because as far as I know there aren't any. But I can find many citations from peer-reviewed scientific publications that can actually support the approach. And I haven't even met Barrett or know anything about Simple Contact other than what I have read in his essays. However, we can all go looking for the underpinning scientific knowledge behind our respective appraches. Can't we?

This is where we either get something to follow up or we grow tired of the argument and switch off. We are all here because we want to learn. Where is the information?

Respectfully,

Pablo

[nari]

Walt
When I last checked I wasn't the least dizzy. Perhaps it is projection....

If you imply neurobiology is not relevant because it cannot explain your beliefs..you might try putting the horse before the cart. Neurobiology exists; surely you cannot deny that fact.
What has Henry Ford got to do with treating people? So if they want a car, give it to them? if they want voodoo / magic, give it to them, regardless?

Management of people's health is a little different...I reckon.

Nari

[Nick]

Okay, okay - in retrospect the pond scum thing does seem a bit harsh. I retract.

But seriously, Walt, do you honestly believe all that MFR theory?

Or is it just about results and you don't care why it works as long as it works.

What does 'works' mean anyway?

Do you really believe that pushing gently on skin until you feel a "barrier", through some miracle of thixotropy, is sufficient for elongating fascial tissue?

And is it you doing the unwinding or the fascia?

Is it not more likely that your touch creates a sensory input, acceptable to the client based on your manner and your treatment environment, processed at higher and higher levels, and facilitating motor response?

I know I'm recovering some old ground here, but you never have answered any of these questions. I know your real intent in coming here was to stop Barrett's bashing, but since you're here, you might as well make yourself clear. Enquirinig minds want to know.

Nick