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  • What I don't understand is why a few people here insist on not answering questions that were presented them...questions that may further increase the knowledge of those not familiar with the how and why of MFR. Instead of at least offering a plausible theory, the aforementioned have now resorted to 'who said this and that' and the 'how dare you attack...' and other blah blah blah irrelevant to the discussion at hand. When you don't answer questions, people grow tiresome and become bored. It may just be me, but I imagine had answers been provided this thread would not have gone sour.
    Chris Adams, PT, MPT

    Comment


    • Hi Walt,

      Sorry I thought it was obvious. When I cited the code of ethics you highlighted, I was referring to the brochure ("The John F. Barnes' Myofascial Release Approach") I received in the mail. In it the claims "There is no such thing as disease", "The most effective form of therapy in the history of healthcare", and treatment of "infertility problems" seem (to me) to violate that ethical issue.

      Would you characterize the above claims as typical, accurate, not overstated, plausible?

      Chris, I think those trying to defend the above are quite hopeful that the thread goes sour or gets shut down. Not answering the questions is revealing in itself.
      Last edited by Jon Newman; 13-01-2006, 05:16 AM.
      "I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jon Newman
        Chris, I think those trying to defend the above are quite hopeful that the thread goes sour or gets shut down. Not answering the questions is revealing in itself.
        Jon, this may very well be the case...and an infortunate one for that matter. I'm still trying to get my feel for neurodynamics because I'm trying to break or somehow meld together my Cartesianesque philosophy and thought that a plausible rationale for MFR would somehow add to my understanding. I guess we've been duped! Thankfully, Barrett's essays and this discussion board (and R.E.) has helped to increase my understanding of neurophysiology and the like.
        Chris Adams, PT, MPT

        Comment


        • Stay tuned to some other threads Chris. I've got some ideas for threads that may be helpful. I hope so anyway. Perhaps this weekend I'll get one started.
          "I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris

          Comment


          • Jon,
            Thanks for the clarification and sorry for the insinuation. I'll tackle those three, but remember, it was not I who said them, right?

            There is no such thing as a disease: Actually, I believe that this was stated by Oschman, and was restated in this context. If you are referring to John Barnes latest seminar brochure, you will find a paraphrasing of information in "Energy Medicine in Therapeutics and Human Performance" (Oschman). I think you said you had the brochure, so check out the book for the details. And, restating words and ideas found in a researched reference book is hardly fraudulent.

            Treatment of infertility problem: No problem there, as i've done the same with success. For some research, go to: http://www.clearpassage.com/published_studies.htm
            These folks studied with John and have made their own approach. There is no doubt in my mind that scar tissue, pelvic asymetries, etc. can be a contributer to infertility issues. Torsions in the pelvic bowl, whether bilateral or unilateral asymetries, cause undue force on the reproductive structures, as does the extensive nature and strength of surgical and traumatic scarring. manually releasing these structures can have a profound effect on the fluidity of the entire pelvic bowl.

            The most effective form of therapy in the history of healthcare: I think this is correct! If one could measure this by the percentage of PT's in the USA who have taken seminars (approx 1/3 at last count), are there any other therapies that can claim this? Not sure. We go by results. Patients go with results. MFR gets results. So, no fraud.

            As I said, only my take.

            Walt

            Comment


            • 1 Walt, do you teach MFR courses?

              2 I'm interested in the following:
              The Wurn Technique® (patent pending), the unique manual physical therapy treatment developed over the last 15 years at Clear Passage Therapies®, was shown to improve both natural and IVF success rates in scientific studies published in 2004.

              You don't happen to have a citation or author of the study they are speaking of in the above statement do you?

              3 Walt, repeating deceiving claims, even if they are not originally your own, is still deceiving, assuming that you knew they were deceiving. Do you believe there is no such thing as disease?
              "I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris

              Comment


              • Walt

                There was mention of patients' testimonials - actually this site and other MFR-related sites seem to rely on these. That is never a recommendation; without any objectivity, testimonials are totally subjective and prone to all sorts of imaginative interpretations. It is quite unprofessional to spout testimonials.

                Of course patients 'go' with results. Many are equally impressed by astrology predictions and plan their life around them. Patients tend to be suggestible and rather vulnerable; to exploit that aspect is fraudulent and unfair.

                I guess you are well and truly on the fringes of "alternative therapy", with no logical basis to MFR (as you will not answer questions), and people will be always be attracted by promises and dramatic promotions. The scary thing is that some of these are PTs. That is a concern.

                Nari

                Comment


                • Jon,
                  I am one of John's instructors, who assist in the lab learning experiences.

                  try: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/480429 for the articles, hope they provide the citations you need.

                  I believe that many named diseases, such as fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue symdrome, many bowel and menstrual/reproductive diseases, etc., are simply descriptions of unresolved inflammatory responses in the body. Do I beleive that there is/are diseases that may not be due to this? Yes, my mom's cancer seems to be one of them.

                  Walt

                  Comment


                  • In case you didn't know. Cancer is one of those things mentioned in relation to "There is no such thing as disease".

                    Here's the abstract. Walt, what conclusions can you draw from this study regarding cause--effect?

                    MedGenMed. 2004 Jun 18;6(2):51.

                    Treating female infertility and improving IVF pregnancy rates with a manual physical therapy technique.

                    Wurn BF, Wurn LJ, King CR, Heuer MA, Roscow AS, Scharf ES, Shuster JJ.

                    Clear Passage Therapies, Gainesville, Florida 32606, USA. cptherapy@aol.com

                    CONTEXT: Infertility and pregnancy. OBJECTIVE: To assess the effectiveness of site-specific manual soft tissue therapy in (1) facilitating natural fertility and (2) improving in vitro fertilization (IVF) pregnancy rates in women with histories indicating abdominopelvic adhesion formation. DESIGN AND INTERVENTION: Pursuant to 2 promising pilot studies, 53 infertile, premenopausal patients received a 10- to 20-hour series of site-specific manual physical therapy treatments. Seventeen patients hoped to achieve a natural pregnancy; 36 planned to undergo IVF within 15 months. The primary criteria for inclusion in the studies were the inability to conceive following a minimum of 12 months of unprotected intercourse and suspected or confirmed pelvic adhesions due to abdominal and/or pelvic surgery, infectious or inflammatory disease (eg, endometriosis, PID), or trauma. Treatments were specifically designed to address biomechanical dysfunctions of the pelvis, sacrum, and coccyx and restricted soft tissue and visceral mobility due to adhesions or microadhesions affecting the reproductive organs and adjacent structures. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: (1) Natural fertility group: pregnancy within 1 year of therapy and subsequent full-term delivery; (2) Pre-IVF group: pregnancy (via transfer of fresh embryos from nondonor eggs) within 15 months of the last manual treatment date. RESULTS: Natural fertility group: Of the 14 patients available for follow-up (ages 25 to 44; mean, 33.5 years), 10 (71.4%) became pregnant within 1 year, and 9 (64.3%) reported full-term deliveries. Three of the 9 women who delivered reported a subsequent pregnancy, suggesting that the treatment protocol might have lasting effects. Two women have had a second live birth delivery; and the third is still pregnant. Pre-IVF group: Of the 25 patients available for follow-up (ages 28 to 44; mean, 36 years), clinical pregnancies were documented in 22 of 33 embryo transfers vs the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) 2001 age-adjusted expected number of 12.7 (P < .001). The estimated odds ratio for a successful pregnancy in a cycle (manual treatment: no treatment) is 3.20 (95% confidence interval = 1.55-8.4). CONCLUSIONS: The data trend across these studies suggests that this innovative site-specific protocol of manual soft-tissue therapy facilitates fertility in women with a wide array of adhesion-related infertility and biomechanical reproductive organ dysfunction. The therapy, designed to improve function by restoring visceral, osseous, and soft-tissue mobility, is a nonsurgical, noninvasive manual technique with no risks and few, if any, adverse side effects or complications. As such, it should be considered a new adjunct to existing medical infertility treatments.

                    PMID: 15266276 [PubMed - in process]
                    "I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris

                    Comment


                    • Fibromyalgia? Really? Inflamatory? No central component?
                      Christopher Bryhan MPT

                      "You are more likely to learn something by finding surprises in your own behavior then by hearing surprising facts about people in general"
                      Daniel Kahneman - Thinking Fast and Slow

                      Comment


                      • ....And chronic fatigue syndrome??

                        Perhaps the name "fibromyalgia" suggests to MFR folk that there are fibrous structures within the muscles which can be broken up by MFR...sounds too painful to even contemplate.

                        Nari

                        Comment


                        • little squares under usernames

                          Yes Diane,
                          It grows with post counts and group memberships. (green = somasimpler) and (blue = Super moderator) grow more slowly.
                          Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
                          We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

                          Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
                          If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
                          bernard

                          Comment


                          • Jon,
                            I had to google the wurn technique to see exactly what it entailed, but to no avail. How the heck does it treat femal infertility? Can someone explain that to me? Really, I am just ignorant as to the actual steps to the technique and the underlying real scientific reasoning.

                            Eddy

                            Comment


                            • Eddy

                              Good luck in finding that one out...:thumbs_do


                              Nari

                              Chris!!! What happened to your hair?? is it due to practising SC??

                              Nari
                              Last edited by nari; 13-01-2006, 11:37 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Eddy, I'll add your question to the list of questions that remain avoided. While there is patent pending on the technique (a new trend?) I wouldn't consider an investment in it with the published study. Ostensibly, I could have had similar results by smacking these folks on the forehead like a faith healer. The study tells us nothing of importance and yet is being used to attract potential students. Essentially they're doing something along the lines of this:



                                Perhaps other research will be more definitive but at the very least it is premature and sensational, in my opinion, to advertise the treatment of infertility.

                                I think the brochure contains misinformation, poorly interpreted information, sensationalistic claims and is therefore necessarily deceptive. I also think that those who teach this and advocate for the course ought to stand up and explain their approach to therapy, at least the stuff that's worth keeping, and denounce all the stuff that isn't.
                                Last edited by Jon Newman; 13-01-2006, 06:37 PM.
                                "I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris

                                Comment

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