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  • #46
    Excatly, John.
    And what is considered "certain" with regards to viruses and bacteria, is often made valueless by mutations.
    We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are - Anais Nin

    I suppose it's easier to believe something than it is to understand it.
    Cmdr. Chris Hadfield on rise of poor / pseudo science

    Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley

    We don't need a body to feel a body. Ronald Melzack

    Comment


    • #47
      About 26 years ago, I was foolish and naive enough to trust the government when they told me that if I took my malaria prophylaxis as prescribed, I wouldn't catch malaria. I was vigilant, but within a few weeks of arriving as a Peace Corp Volunteer in Liberia, West Africa, I was hospitalized with a severe case of falciparum malaria. The sulfa drugs didn't work, so they had to give me quinine, which burnt out the outer hair cells in my cochlea, and now I suffer with hearing loss and tinnitus. Many PCVs came down with malaria during the 20 months I spent in that country. It's a very dangerous disease, particularly for some white kid from the suburbs of St. Louis.

      I learned the hard way. Fool me once...
      John Ware, PT
      Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
      "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
      “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
      be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by John W View Post
        I learned the hard way. Fool me once...
        Out of curiosity, John, what would you have done different, if anything? Would you have still traveled if government bodies had not been so 'sure' of their prophylaxis treatment?

        While I have my own questions regarding the spread of this virus amongst healthcare workers, I am uncertain what else the general population can do other than cross their fingers (or pray, if it suits you). It is good news, however, that we are about a week in and still no signs of illness among the monitored (many of whom were exposed nearly 2 weeks ago.

        Respectfully,
        Keith
        Blog: Keith's Korner
        Twitter: @18mmPT

        Comment


        • #49
          Government pronouncements always have the agenda of maintaining law and order and peace. Well, except for when a lot of economy can be generated by war.
          They remind me of air travel, of which I've just finished a big bunch.
          There are rules, and passengers are not allowed to buck the system. One airline doesn't care anymore if you have your iPad or phone turned on. Another acts like you'll destroy the plane if any electronics are not shut off and put away for take off and landing. Air Canada insisted I check a bag that is a small roller, which has been fine as carry-on for the last twelve trips, but suddenly it was deemed "too big" - they're changing the rules, conditioning the public to check luggage so that soon, when they start charging for checked luggage, we'll be used to doing it. (All I can say is they better start making sure the bags aren't delayed, Air Canada's favourite trick..)
          Societal rules and pronouncements, totally arbitrary, often make no sense. They can't possibly know what's what for certain. It's all about preserving the institution. When I look deep into myself, I must admit I prefer arbitrary pronouncements to anarchy..
          But you can't mandate a virus as someone pointed out earlier - they mutate in spite of puny human official pronouncements about them.
          Diane
          www.dermoneuromodulation.com
          SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
          HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
          Neurotonics PT Teamblog
          Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
          Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
          @PainPhysiosCan
          WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
          @WCPTPTPN
          Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

          @dfjpt
          SomaSimple on Facebook
          @somasimple

          "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

          “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

          “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

          "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

          "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

          Comment


          • #50
            Out of curiosity, John, what would you have done different, if anything? Would you have still traveled if government bodies had not been so 'sure' of their prophylaxis treatment?
            Well, I was a 23 year-old idealist with an attitude, so I probably would've gone anyway. But, who knows? If someone whom I respected showed me some evidence that the prophylaxis had a certain failure rate, which based on my firsthand experience was substantial, I might have reconsidered.
            John Ware, PT
            Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
            "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
            “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
            be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

            Comment


            • #51
              Life, Death and Grim Routine Fill the Day at a Liberian Ebola Clinic from NYT.
              As they walked through tropical forest filled with birdsong, another man followed behind, spraying the dirt path until the brown leaves glistened with bleach solution. They were burying a 38-year-old man. In the final stages of his illness, he had left his bed, disoriented, and curled up against a 50-year-old woman who had died. A nurse found them lying together the next morning, a scene Dr. Hatch called “simultaneously touching and horrifying.”

              Now, the man’s body bag dripped as the burial team lowered it into a freshly dug hole, across from the grave of the woman, which was marked with a simple wooden sign. His was the seventh body on the grounds of the new treatment center. Ten more holes had already been dug, and four men with shovels stood by watching. No prayers were spoken, no tears were shed in what has become a new, numbed burial rite. As they returned, the team sprayed their path all the way back to the morgue.
              8:40 A.M.

              A Liberian woman scooped steaming yam porridge out of a blue bucket — breakfast for the patients and staff. The food is prepared off-site, at a university that is closed because of the outbreak and houses many of the staff members. The center has people working as cleaners, sprayers and waste removers — part of the so-called WASH (water, sanitation and hygiene) team — who continuously disinfect the site and remove contaminated material. Still, the sight was a little jarring: The woman was putting the food into plastic foam plates just a few steps from the dressing rooms for staff members coming out of the decontamination areas, the pharmacy, and past a refrigerator with a sign marked, “Ebola blood tests. NO FOOD.”
              Even with the new lab, something as basic as blood tests still posed outsize challenges. The intense disinfecting process sometimes erased or eroded patient identification numbers from tubes and paper, making them difficult or impossible to read. Each blood draw was risky for staff members, particularly because the syringes were difficult to manipulate with triple-gloved hands.
              Ms. Kollie was now negative, meaning that she had recovered from Ebola or her first sample had been mixed up with someone else’s. “Thank you, thank you!” Ms. Kollie rejoiced when she was told the news. She danced and reached out her arms as if to hug the staff, who were separated from her by plastic fencing. “I’m coming home,” she told her parents on the phone.

              She stepped into a shower for 10 minutes of scrubbing, with a nurse giving instructions. She dropped a handful of belongings, including money, a small change purse and a cellphone, into a bucket of chlorine for disinfection. (She said she did not care that the phone might not survive.) Someone handed her a bag with a fresh set of clothing and $10 for transportation.

              It had rained briefly. Looking out from the hilltop, Ms. Kollie saw a rainbow.
              Diane
              www.dermoneuromodulation.com
              SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
              HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
              Neurotonics PT Teamblog
              Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
              Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
              @PainPhysiosCan
              WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
              @WCPTPTPN
              Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

              @dfjpt
              SomaSimple on Facebook
              @somasimple

              "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

              “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

              “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

              "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

              Comment


              • #52
                Can dogs transmit ebola? Why not? They don't have to be able to contract ebola to spread ebola from one person to another through surface contact. Don't kill dogs... sheesh.. keep them away from Africa in the first place, give them a good bath, dip in mild bleach or something, especially the paws.

                The Spanish nurse's dog is slated for euthanasia.
                Diane
                www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                @PainPhysiosCan
                WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                @WCPTPTPN
                Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                @dfjpt
                SomaSimple on Facebook
                @somasimple

                "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                Comment


                • #53
                  Grim, grim reading
                  "Here is Edward Bear coming downstairs now, bump, bump, bump, on the back of his head behind Christopher Robin. It is, as far as he knows, the only way of coming downstairs, but sometimes he feels that there is another way, if only he could stop bumping for a moment and think of it." A.A. Milne

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Every clinician in the UK now has this guidance from the CMO. Issued today to all NHS staff via cascade.

                    Also from The Guardian the reports on what has happened in Spain puts the initial misdiagnosis in Dallas in perspective. The nurse - who had been working with good protection with the patient with Ebola - reported Three times her symptoms before being told to go to a local hospital by normal ambulance!

                    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...oms-quarantine

                    WTSHTF is a popular 'preppers' acronym. Makes me want to stock up on dry goods and a water purification rig.
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by ste5e; 08-10-2014, 06:45 PM. Reason: The pdf at the bottom is important the other bits are not.
                    Peering over the shoulders of giants.

                    Know pain. Know gain.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      A virologist takes you inside the ebola protective suit, via NPR.

                      There actually was a very interesting piece on CNN about a woman that had treated her family successfully and she did not have a medical background, just using garbage bags and extreme precautions in her own home. And it's our hope, it's not an ideal circumstance, but it's our hope that a lot of other locals could learn from that example because, as I mentioned, the system for clinical care is simply overwhelmed right now.
                      Diane
                      www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                      SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                      HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                      Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                      Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                      Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                      @PainPhysiosCan
                      WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                      @WCPTPTPN
                      Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                      @dfjpt
                      SomaSimple on Facebook
                      @somasimple

                      "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                      “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                      “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                      "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                      "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Ebola is 'entrenched and accelerating' in West Africa

                        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29563530

                        The World Health Organization (WHO) has warned that Ebola is now entrenched in the capital cities of all three worst-affected countries and is accelerating in almost all settings.
                        WHO deputy head Bruce Aylward warned that the world's response was not keeping up with the disease in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone.
                        The outbreak has killed more than 3,860 people, mainly in West Africa.

                        More than 200 health workers are among the victims.

                        Speaking on Thursday, Mr Aylward said the situation was worse than it was 12 days ago.
                        "The disease is entrenched in the capitals, 70% of the people affected are definitely dying from this disease, and it is accelerating in almost all of the settings," he said.
                        The medical charity Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) reported a sharp increase of Ebola cases in the Guinean capital, Conakry, dashing hopes that that the disease was being stabilised there.

                        Sepaking to the BBC on Friday, MSF President Joanna Liu called for urgent international action.
                        "We're not winning the battle," she said.
                        "To get ahead of the game we're going to need to deploy much more massively than what we have done so far."
                        At least one in 20 of those killed in the latest outbreak were medical workers, she said.
                        Ebola is taking a particularly bad toll in Liberia
                        Fears have heightened that the deadly virus could be spreading further afield
                        A Liberian doctor died of the disease at a treatment centre in Monrovia on Thursday.
                        US Air Force personnel put up tents to house a 25-bed American-built hospital for sick Liberian health workers as part in Operation United Assistance in Monrovia, Liberia (9 October 2014)

                        The US emphasis in Liberia is on providing treatment for sick health workers
                        Meanwhile in Spain, seven more people are being monitored in hospital for Ebola.
                        They include two hairdressers who came into contact with Teresa Romero, a Madrid nurse looked after an Ebola patient who had been repatriated from West Africa.
                        Ms Romero is now very and reported to be at serious risk of dying.
                        Nigeria's government says 200 healthcare workers have volunteered to be sent to Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea as part of a global response team on Ebola.
                        Nigeria, which has had seven confirmed deaths from the virus, seems to have successfully contained the spread of the haemorrhagic fever, the BBC's Chris Ewokor in Abuja says.
                        Jo Bowyer
                        Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
                        "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Hi All,
                          The infection/death rate amongst health workers in this outbreak was at one stage reported as 8% of the total deaths to this outbreak of the disease. This compares to previous outbreaks of 1-2% of the total. This high figure may not even include the families of the medics and nurses who have been infected and died such as the wifes of the two doctors who died with their husbands in the Nigeria outbreak (mercifully contained it seems - the one bright spot in this so far).
                          What is different about this time?
                          Any thoughts,
                          Steve
                          that it may be to some extent airborne transmissable is the potentially apocalyptic
                          Peering over the shoulders of giants.

                          Know pain. Know gain.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            We're not getting the truth about this latest outbreak. This virus appears to be more infectious than we've been told by the "authorities".


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                            John Ware, PT
                            Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
                            "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
                            “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
                            be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Patient Zero believed to be sole source of Ebola outbreak

                              http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local...a-outbreak.ece
                              One glaring fact from the latest report on the Ebola outbreak is that five of the many study authors are dead, killed by the disease that is roiling west Africa. The new analysis, published in the August 29 issue of Science, reveals that the current Ebola outbreak stemmed from an earlier initial leap from the wild into humans, rather than the virus repeatedly jumping from a natural reservoir—perhaps infected animals—to humans. By essentially sketching out a high-tech molecular family tree, researchers concluded that the virus spreading in Sierra Leone and nearby countries is the descendent of an original Ebola viral jump, and not new versions of the pathogen that are being repeatedly introduced into the human population. That means the public health response to this outbreak—which focuses on tracking and treating those who have been exposed to people with Ebola, rather than attempting to keep people away from potential animal carriers—has been the right strategy.
                              That conclusion comes from a sweeping analysis of 99 Ebola virus genome sequences that comprise some 70 percent of the Ebola patients diagnosed in Sierra Leone in late May to mid-June. The virus samples were extracted from the blood of 78 patients early in Sierra Leone’s outbreak. And the work indicates that the first case of the disease in that country stemmed from the burial of a traditional healer who had previously treated Ebola patients in Guinea. Subsequently, 13 additional women who attended the burial developed Ebola viral disease.
                              Jo Bowyer
                              Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
                              "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Ebola virus: British outbreak tests NHS response as experts say it is 'increasingly likely' that disease will reach the UK

                                http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...k-9789242.html
                                Britain should expect “a handful” of Ebola cases in the next few months, the Chief Medical Officer has said, as doctors, nurses and paramedics across the country took part in a simulated outbreak yesterday to test the country’s readiness.

                                Volunteer actors posing as Ebola patients were treated in clinics and rushed to hospital by medical professionals in full protective clothing in an unprecedented exercise ordered by David Cameron and designed to stress-test the NHS response to an outbreak.

                                Dame Sally Davies, England’s Chief Medical Officer, said that any cases in the UK would be “spill-over” from West Africa.

                                She defended plans to screen passengers from the region at airports, admitting that although the measures were “unlikely to pick up many cases, if any”, they would serve an important role in alerting visitors from West Africa of the symptoms to look out for, and informing them what to do if they thought they were at risk.

                                Disease experts have said it is increasingly likely that the deadly virus will reach the UK. Health authorities have consistently said that the country is well prepared to identify, isolate and treat Ebola patients and prevent a major outbreak on home soil. However, the Government’s response has been criticised, with scientists saying that screening at airports and international rail terminals, which was ordered last week, would be a “waste of time”.

                                As healthcare staff carried out the eight-hour exercise, the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, chaired a mock meeting of the Government’s emergency committee, Cobra. He said the exercise had left him “doubly assured” of the country’s ability to cope with Ebola cases. “We have robust plans in place in the event that we get an Ebola case in the UK,” he added. “We will evaluate what went well and what we need to improve. This exercise is just one small part of our ongoing contingency plans for Ebola.”

                                Exercises took part in several parts of England, giving an insight into how NHS organisations would identify and treat suspected Ebola patients. A Department of Health spokesperson said that health officials from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland “observed” the exercise. Responsibility for public health is devolved and the healthcare systems in each nation would be responsible for their Ebola response.

                                In one scenario, paramedics were called to a shopping centre where a person collapsed after feeling unwell. After assessment, the patient was rushed to the Royal Victoria Infirmary in Newcastle and placed in an isolation ward. Dummy blood tests were carried out to rule out malaria and samples taken for testing at Public Health England’s (PHE) Rare and Imported Pathogens lab at Porton Down in Wiltshire, where eight hours later Ebola would either be confirmed or ruled out.

                                The Newcastle patient was then taken to the Royal Free Hospital in London, the country’s centre of excellence for treating infectious diseases, where the British nurse William Pooley, who contracted Ebola while working in Sierra Leone, was treated earlier this year.

                                The Royal Victoria, PHE and the local ambulance trust also traced patients’ movements and contacts.

                                In a separate scenario, a “patient” at a walk-in centre in Hillingdon, west London, was also taken to the Royal Free. Health officials say that in the event of a large number of cases, patients could be treated on isolation wards at most major hospitals.

                                Dame Sally, who attended yesterday’s simulated Cobra meeting with other officials and ministers, said the exercise had given “a very realistic test of how prepared the system is to deal with a case of Ebola”. She added: “I would like to thank everyone involved and assure the public that we will now use this exercise to further strengthen our resilience plans.”
                                Jo Bowyer
                                Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
                                "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

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