Are things getting hot on twitter?

[PatrickL]

You are welcome. Diane, I'd still have a one of those coffee beers with you again if you'd have one with me.

[Diane]

About the whole glial/neuron ratio business that Mick Thacker rests his particular case on, as he tries to insinuate that glia are immune cells, because he seems to not care about embryology very much, I give you this.

If it seems a little too poindexterish for most, to acknowledge how important the family tree of cell types is in understanding a human organism, I say this: unless you know where you come from you'll never understand where you are at. The medical science of embryology and the important larger field of evolutionary biology and developmental biology are completely intertwined. They're there for a reason, and the reason is to keep reasoning organized, at the societal level.
I have no personal capacity to be organized without guidelines.

As a profession we are disorganized. We don't pay attention to any guidelines, we just make stuff up apparently.

I imagine an embryologist, and neuroanatomists, looking at certain prominent figures in PT, and shaking their heads. Of course, they wouldn't - they'd be too polite probably. But it's a scenario that shouldn't ever even be imaginable.

[Diane]

You are welcome. Diane, I'd still have a one of those coffee beers with you again if you'd have one with me.

But of course. Want to invite Evan?

[PatrickL]

For sure. Thanks for this discussion and others like it. I'm going to drop back to lurking for a while and let some of your ideas percolate around a bit more.

[Diane]

My blogpost about all this. Suzana Herculano-Houzel has novel news about glia in the human brain.

Here is more boogly stuff about TRPv1 receptors.

I really liked Tim Cocks description of the nervous system in his latest NOIjam blogpost:

The whole dualistic argument just evaporates though if you consider one continuous nervous system without arbitrary slash marks separating peripheral from central and one whole human being with an embodied mind embedded in an environment and culture. Then we can say with certainty that bodies don’t have phantom limb pain, brains don’t have phantom limb pain and minds don’t have phantom limb pain – only people have phantom limb pain.

I fully support the move away from tissue-based reasoning and biomechanical thinking, toward a completely nervous-system-based systems of understanding and of treatment.
You can treat a human being using manual therapy by sticking with reasoning based on only select ectodermal derivatives (nervous system), if you bother to learn your nerves... cutaneous nerves..

[Ken Jakalski]

You are welcome. Diane, I'd still have a one of those coffee beers with you again if you'd have one with me.

You guys are simply the best!

After all this, a mutual respect for people whom you would really enjoy sharing an evening with--and with all parties enthusiastically accepting the invitation.

It's situations like this that make me realize why I enjoy coming here every day.

[Diane]

You can come too Ken. Those coffee beers in Quebec are awesome at 11% alcohol, something like that. They are big too, 12 oz as I recall.. Or maybe they just seem big.
Anyway, all I can remember is I had to stop at one. Or maybe half of one. Absolutely decadent they are. The chocolate beer in San Diego is pretty good too - transparent plug for San Diego Pain Summit next Feb.

[Evanthis Raftopoulos]

you ask me repeatedly to reply to things I've discussed and answered in numerous threads.

So you are ignoring and avoiding answering questions directed at you on the basis that you’ve answered them somewhere else in the past? I get the impression that you don't usually have a problem repeating useful information and what you think, so that doesn’t make any sense to me.

I'm sorry if you don't get it.

Yes, I don’t get why you have been avoiding answering my questions. I’m left to assume that you are not comfortable answering them because they point towards the weaknesses and potential errors of theories that you support (related to dnm, social grooming, usefulness of meso/ecto devision in practice, optimal MT parameters for pain relief/locus of control etc.) .

tissue-based reasoning and biomechanical thinking, toward a completely nervous-system-based systems

This will always be incomplete or partially correct reasoning. The nervous system is both mechanosensitive and embedded in other tissues. That's a fact.

You can treat a human being using manual therapy by sticking with reasoning based on only select ectodermal derivatives (nervous system),

except that ectodermal derivatives =/ nervous system. This is a fundamental error in logic that anyone can see.

Sorry Diane, I do my best not to mislead or be misled. I know that it might become annoying to the person being questioned, but just know that I have only good intentions. I respect you and everyone else here, and I'm always thankful for people taking the time to discuss these issues on SS.

Evan

[nari]

Quote Tim Cocks:

The whole dualistic argument just evaporates though if you consider one continuous nervous system without arbitrary slash marks separating peripheral from central and one whole human being with an embodied mind embedded in an environment and culture. Then we can say with certainty that bodies don’t have phantom limb pain, brains don’t have phantom limb pain and minds don’t have phantom limb pain – only people have phantom limb pain.

I agree. Wish I had seen him write this about 10 years ago when PTs were carefully separating peripheral from central; the pain of post-stroke was quite unrelated to muscle pain; pain in the back was different from "frozen shoulder"and various management was entirely different. Eeeek.

nari