Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The 'Tone' of Soma Simple

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • CT The 'Tone' of Soma Simple

    I've been talking about this lately on social media. Here's a recent quote of mine on the topic:

    Couple things. First, 'the soma crowd' is not a single entity and I think you'll find that the people there are quite varied in their approaches - it may be that the 'small minority' of people you mention reflects that.

    I can't speak for anyone else but I'll say that making big cultural changes (like moving away from a pure connective tissue model and on to a wider one inclusive of nervous system and brain) takes time and there are as many approaches to educating as there are people. Simply, some people will respond better to a gentler message and others to a more confrontational one. If the 'tone' or whatever there isn't to your liking you needn't return. But we have had people who showed up to prove something or dispute a study, then after exchanges there became regular members and loved it. We've also had people leave in a huff. You can't please everyone.

    A lot of folks seem to bring up the tone there but also can't seem to provide an example of a real insult or a quote of inappropriate behavior. We don't tolerate ad hominems or insults there and the board is moderated for that stuff. I have seen variations in conversational tone or emphasis on all branches of social media. If I had come to Twitter once and been turned off from the 'tone' of a conversation there and left I would have missed out on a great education. Same with Facebook and with Soma Simple. Feel free to judge the site on one thread and never return - if that's what you'd like to do. But there are plenty of people in the therapy and training world that go there regularly and learn a lot - they can't all be blind to those concerns, can they?

    This discussion comes up in every community - how do we get our message out? There's room for all sorts of approaches as different people are persuaded by different things. If we want to reach a large variety of people we need a variety of approaches. If you like those topics delivered differently try BodyInMind with Moseley et al or ISPI with Louww et al or NxtGen or Forward Thinking with Joe Brence et al. We've established that insults aren't allowed at Soma Simple. So that leaves a vague sense of tone. When people complain about 'tone' the message I hear is "that place isn't run the way I would prefer. It would be better for me if people would behave like _____ instead." How could such a diverse group respond to that? It's a bottom-up self organizing community and it's not for everyone.

    Things there often are at odds with how I practice. I'm fine with that. I've had highly charged and long running disagreements with people there - look up my entry in the welcome section and find 'Jason and Diane's classic feuds' for some examples. And I wouldn't change Soma if I could - and I definitely can't. You're always welcome there. People are safe there but their ideas aren't.
    Last edited by bernard; 17-01-2014, 07:18 AM.
    Jason Silvernail DPT, DSc, FAAOMPT
    Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy
    Fellowship-Trained in Orthopedic Manual Therapy

    Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist


    The views expressed in this entry are those of the author alone and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the US Government.

  • #2
    Well said, Jason. I believe that quite often these comments about ‘tone’ are nothing more than just an ‘appeal to emotion’, a way for people to manipulate the discussion.
    -Evan. The postings on this site are my own and do not represent the views or policies of my employer or APTA.
    The reason why an intellectual community is necessary is that it offers the only hope of grasping the whole. -Robert Maynard Hutchins.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think it's possible that people mistake the tone of a post when reading because we don't see facial expressions and body language. We are also free to use our own imagination, which can run wild when our belief systems are challenged.

      Personally, I cannot count the times when I have mistaken the tone of my wife's text messages, especially when she doesn't put a smiley face after it..hehe

      Rex
      Rex Fujiwara, MPT,OCS
      Physical Therapist
      www.painsciencecenter.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Evanthis Raftopoulos View Post
        Well said, Jason. I believe that quite often these comments about ‘tone’ are nothing more than just an ‘appeal to emotion’, a way for people to manipulate the discussion.
        I will give them the benefit of the doubt Evan. I would simply say that in a culture that is progressively less confrontational, in the context of a field that is desperately looking for a way to help people in pain...people are manipulated by their emotion, cognitive biases and dissonance. It cannot be helped, but this is not isolated to SS; I imagine that there are likely similar sites for every field of science featuring a wide swath of participants with a variety of tone where there is serious debate about serious subject matters.

        Even so, if it is that 'tone' that contributes to publicly critical minds such as Jason's, Eric's, Joseph's, and Kyle's...I challenge anyone to argue with the results.

        The proof is in the pudding.

        Respectfully,
        Keith
        Blog: Keith's Korner
        Twitter: @18mmPT

        Comment


        • #5
          Even so, if it is that 'tone' that contributes to publicly critical minds such as Jason's, Eric's, Joseph's, and Kyle's...I challenge anyone to argue with the results.
          Keithp.
          Carol Lynn Chevrier LMT
          " The truth is, people may see things differently. But they don't really want to. '' Don Draper.

          Comment


          • #6
            There are a wide variety of ways that the opinions are expressed on the site however overall I'd say it's more what the reader reads into the site than what's written. The majority of the time I find posters here to be a combination of passionately graciously blunt not bad virtues to cultivate IMHO.

            Didn't Salinger run into tonal problems? Actually I can think of a large number of textual examples that the same could be said of as well.
            "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." ("Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen.“) Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus Ludwig Wittgenstein
            Question your tea spoons. Georges Perec

            Comment


            • #7
              Hey Mark. I'm a bit of a Salinger nut-named my last born after Franny and Zooey-one of my all-time faves.

              Can you elaborate on the tonal thing? Are we talking about the same Salinger?
              Carol Lynn Chevrier LMT
              " The truth is, people may see things differently. But they don't really want to. '' Don Draper.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mark Hollis View Post
                Didn't Salinger run into tonal problems? Actually I can think of a large number of textual examples that the same could be said of as well.
                My high school teacher said that T.S. Eliot thought The Waste Land was just 'the grumblings of an old man' and it won many accolades.

                *I have never seen any proof that Eliot actually thought this but I like the message of the anecdote.
                **WARNING**
                I am not smart.

                _..~~///Eat protein. Protein is your mortal soul in unit skillfulness\\\~~.._

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by keithp View Post
                  I will give them the benefit of the doubt Evan. I would simply say that in a culture that is progressively less confrontational, in the context of a field that is desperately looking for a way to help people in pain...people are manipulated by their emotion, cognitive biases and dissonance. It cannot be helped, but this is not isolated to SS; I imagine that there are likely similar sites for every field of science featuring a wide swath of participants with a variety of tone where there is serious debate about serious subject matters.

                  Even so, if it is that 'tone' that contributes to publicly critical minds such as Jason's, Eric's, Joseph's, and Kyle's...I challenge anyone to argue with the results.

                  The proof is in the pudding.

                  Respectfully,
                  Keith
                  Keith, for sure. I think that we should give others the benefit of the doubt up to a certain point. Let’s say that one starts calling another arrogant or ignorant just because they are in disagreement (not uncommon at LinkedIn’s PT forums), then there is no doubt in my mind about what is going on. My BS detector has become very sensitive since I started participating in online discussions. When I made that comment I wasn't thinking of SS. I've had the best experience chatting about things here, and I have nothing but respect towards the members of this forum. It's quite amazing to me how much I'm learning from others here just by reading and participating. Nevertheless, I think that we shouldn't expect from people to like or approve our 'tone'. We have better things to worry about.
                  -Evan. The postings on this site are my own and do not represent the views or policies of my employer or APTA.
                  The reason why an intellectual community is necessary is that it offers the only hope of grasping the whole. -Robert Maynard Hutchins.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hey Caro, yes, same Salinger. Just thinking of the tonal disaffection attributed to Holden Caulfield in 'CitR' and how it seemed to be historically one of the more censored books (especially from American education system).
                    "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." ("Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen.“) Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus Ludwig Wittgenstein
                    Question your tea spoons. Georges Perec

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I do think is is high time that we start a beginners sub-forum. We have plenty of sub-forums too.

                      People who are not familiar with this topic should start in this beginners forum. These are the people who have some very serious cognitive dissonance when they are questioned or and their approach (not them) shown to be wrong all their years. So this probably has nothing to do with insulting or offensive tone. If that is how they perceive it that is the truth for them. And I do think this large dissonance is due the lack of understanding of this topic.

                      So the best place for people like these would be to start in the beginners forum. Here all the members should be very aware that the people who write here are very sensitive and we should be very careful how we question and reply to them. Just a thought.
                      Anoop Balachandran
                      EXERCISE BIOLOGY - The Science of Exercise & Nutrition

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I propose that we put together some basic information (or provide relevant links) about

                        - critical thinking (logic, Occam's razor, logical fallacies, cognitive biases, etc.)

                        - science based medicine (how it enhances evidence based medicine, Bayesian probability, falsifiability, plausibility, theories, etc.)

                        - history and philosophy of science (paradigm shifts, limits of knowledge, context and language, etc.)
                        -Evan. The postings on this site are my own and do not represent the views or policies of my employer or APTA.
                        The reason why an intellectual community is necessary is that it offers the only hope of grasping the whole. -Robert Maynard Hutchins.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I like Evan's idea above. Someone a while back mentioned the concept of a new, updated home page for the site. I think that would be a good place for some of the information/links that Evan described. Easy to find, right in front of you, no digging required.
                          Patrick Septon, P.T.

                          "In the high country of the mind one has to become adjusted to the thinner air of uncertainty..." -Robert M. Pirsig

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by anoopbal View Post
                            So the best place for people like these would be to start in the beginners forum. Here all the members should be very aware that the people who write here are very sensitive and we should be very careful how we question and reply to them. Just a thought.
                            I think a beginners forum/sub-forum (see my comments on that previously) is a good idea.

                            I recall when I first came here, being told that I should read and not type in threads at that time. I think that kind of response is a quick way to send most people packing. It is my opinion that the idea is to foster conversation, if you want to get this information out to more and more therapists.
                            Last edited by Curious One; 17-02-2014, 06:16 PM. Reason: add link/correct link/fix link again... looks right now. :O
                            C.O. ( gender: ) - LMT, BS(Anatomy), DC
                            Music Fog... pick a song to listen to... you can't go wrong.
                            Need relaxation samples for your office? I have made a Deep Relaxation Massage Music Pandora Station and have others that may also be useful - about 8 massage music stations and about 49 other nifty options.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              At a recent coaching clinic where I was speaking, I sat in on someone else's earlier session. There were about thirty coaches in attendance. The speaker asked how many had been coaching less than five years. About twenty hands went up.

                              Clearly, I was the dinosaur in the room, but what hit me was how many young teachers-- given a coaching assignment--really wanted to learn as much as they could by way of these clinics.

                              Couple of questions:

                              Those of you working with young therapists, do you find this to be the case as well?

                              When you folks do seminars, do you receive correspondences from the clinicians, asking for additional information or clarification?

                              Comment

                              Previously entered content was automatically saved. Restore or Discard.
                              Auto-Saved
                              x
                              Insert: Thumbnail Small Medium Large Fullsize Remove  
                              x
                              x
                              Working...
                              X