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  • #76
    I'm not sure if "immaturity" is the proper word to describe this behavior. I was called an "a-hole" over at linkedin by a university level lecturer, at least 30 years older than me, after asking her some clinically relevant questions for her claims re frozen shoulder rx. Once backed into a corner in such debates, some people just can't take it and overwhelmed by their own nonsense take the easy way out and resolve to this type of comments. That's my assessment from participating in online debates the past year or so.
    -Evan. The postings on this site are my own and do not represent the views or policies of my employer or APTA.
    The reason why an intellectual community is necessary is that it offers the only hope of grasping the whole. -Robert Maynard Hutchins.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Evanthis Raftopoulos View Post
      I'm not sure if "immaturity" is the proper word to describe this behavior. I was called an "a-hole" over at linkedin by a university level lecturer, at least 30 years older than me, after asking her some clinically relevant questions for her claims re frozen shoulder rx. Once backed into a corner in such debates, some people just can't take it and overwhelmed by their own nonsense take the easy way out and resolve to this type of comments. That's my assessment from participating in online debates the past year or so.
      I think it was Ben Goldacre that said "Good science takes nothing personally, bad science always does."

      Ad hominem attacks are far more ubiquitous than they should be on social media (LinkedIn seems particularly bad). It's unfortunate that this type of interaction has become so commonplace for any type of discourse that challenges clinical practice and decision making.
      Kenneth Venere PT, DPT
      @kvenere
      Physiological

      Comment


      • #78
        Kenny,
        I agree with you in principle, but when entering the different venues with different sets of rules of conduct, you have to adjust your style to suit. This forum is strictly moderated and you can't get away with promoting pseudoscience or calling people names. LinkedIn is hardly moderated at all, so certain individuals, usually the ones with the biggest egos and the least amount of support for their arguments, make repeatedly bogus or irrelevant points and end up de-railing the whole discussion. They also resort to patronizing and dismissive attacks, which are a form of ad hom. I've found the only way to deal with these people, like any bully, is to confront them

        The question that I ask myself sometimes is Is it worth it to engage in these forums? Based on the number of PTs who have requested to "connect" with me over at LinkedIn, for the moment anyway, I think it is.


        John Ware, PT, FAAOMPT

        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
        John Ware, PT
        Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
        "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
        “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
        be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by John W View Post
          Kenny,
          I agree with you in principle, but when entering the different venues with different sets of rules of conduct, you have to adjust your style to suit. This forum is strictly moderated and you can't get away with promoting pseudoscience or calling people names. LinkedIn is hardly moderated at all, so certain individuals, usually the ones with the biggest egos and the least amount of support for their arguments, make repeatedly bogus or irrelevant points and end up de-railing the whole discussion. They also resort to patronizing and dismissive attacks, which are a form of ad hom. I've found the only way to deal with these people, like any bully, is to confront them

          The question that I ask myself sometimes is Is it worth it to engage in these forums? Based on the number of PTs who have requested to "connect" with me over at LinkedIn, for the moment anyway, I think it is.


          John Ware, PT, FAAOMPT

          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          I agree 100% with John here. It is clear to me that Erson is far less capable of professional discussion than I would have given him credit for. The more he comments, the more clear to me it's not an issue of maturity.

          He is revealing himself as a narcissistic bully who resorts to angry and patronizing behavior rather than engaging a relevant and thoughtful discussion.

          Amazingly, Erson hasn't a clue that his repugnant behavior will most certainly come back to haunt him down the road.

          He teaches people for goodness sakes. We should continue to challenge and confront colleagues such as that because otherwise, we become complicit in the downhill spiral our profession is currently in.

          Make no mistake, gouging people with metal objects, stabbing people and "fixing" asymmetries is indeed...a downward spiral.
          Last edited by proud; 22-09-2013, 09:19 PM.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by proud View Post
            He teaches people for goodness sakes.
            And works as adjunct prof at all 3 PT departments at universities local to him.

            Respectfully,
            Keith
            Blog: Keith's Korner
            Twitter: @18mmPT

            Comment


            • #81
              I think Dr. E, DPT is doing an excellent job of "reputation building" as Jason pointed out.

              I wonder what the directors of research at the institutions where he teaches would think about him referring to his colleagues as "EB police"?

              This is the gift that keeps on giving.
              John Ware, PT
              Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
              "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
              “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
              be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

              Comment


              • #82
                I was about to post some questions for Erson over on his site but I really am not a big fan of that disquis format....at all.

                Comment


                • #83
                  I'll say this for Disqus: apparently those who choose that format agree to a "no censorship" policy. So, apparently, Erson doesn't have ultimate authority over what comments are posted. This is certainly in stark contrast to his...uh...communication style.

                  I may be wrong and it seems counter-intuitive that someone wouldn't have control over their own blogs comment threads, but my quick glance at the Terms of Agreement when I signed up seemed to indicate as much.

                  Maybe one of the tech geeks out there can enlighten us, Joe? Bernard? KarenL?
                  John Ware, PT
                  Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
                  "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
                  “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
                  be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    I am sure Erson continues to have some control over the posted comments (especially to monitor and limit spam). That stated, we run on different formats, his being "Blogger", which is a Google-owned program. So I am not sure of his terms of agreement. I think Diane runs hers from Blogger. Diane is this correct? If so, can you censor comments?
                    Joseph Brence, DPT, FAAOMPT, COMT, DAC
                    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein
                    Blog: www.forwardthinkingpt.com

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      I use blogger. Since the beginning I've monitored every single comment. Three-quarters of all comments are spam.
                      Diane
                      www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                      SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                      HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                      Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                      Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                      Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                      @PainPhysiosCan
                      WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                      @WCPTPTPN
                      Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                      @dfjpt
                      SomaSimple on Facebook
                      @somasimple

                      "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                      “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                      “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                      "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                      "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Evan, being called an a*&*hole is not nice. I was once called a douchebag and offered a cell phone number to call so that we could argue over the phone. No thanks. Sometimes things can get so heated online that eventually you will see Godwin's Law
                        Rob Willcott Physiotherapist

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by advantage1 View Post
                          Evan, being called an a*&*hole is not nice. I was once called a douchebag and offered a cell phone number to call so that we could argue over the phone. No thanks. Sometimes things can get so heated online that eventually you will see Godwin's Law
                          Thanks for sharing. I think the goal was to make you feel bad. You shouldn't.
                          -Evan. The postings on this site are my own and do not represent the views or policies of my employer or APTA.
                          The reason why an intellectual community is necessary is that it offers the only hope of grasping the whole. -Robert Maynard Hutchins.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Well, I tried to post this at "The Manual Therapist" blog:
                            I just wanted to provide a brief list of individuals in the PT research community who have been interviewed at SomaSimple.com:

                            Steven George, PhD, PT- Associate Professor and Assistant Program Chair, University of Florida program in Physical Therapy. Premier clinical PT researcher in the area of spinal manipulation and the role of fear-avoidance beliefs in persistent musculoskeletal pain. Member of editorial boards of both the journals Physical Therapy and JOSPT
                            Michael Shacklock, M.App.Sc., Dip.Physio., Author of Clinical Neurodynamics, published researcher, international lecturer and course provider in clinical neurodynamics for treatment of musculoskeletal pain problems.

                            Joel Bialosky, PT, PhD, FAAOMPT, OCS- Clinical Assistant Professor at University of Florida program in Physical Therapy. Leading researcher in the area of developing explanatory model for the mechanism of manual therapy. Received “Excellence in Research Award” from JOSPT in 2009 and “Best Paper” award from JMMT in 2011.

                            Nicholas Lucas, DO, PhD- manual therapy researcher and published author in peer reviewed publications with emphasis in the area of reliability and validity of clinical testing and myofascial trigger points.

                            Adriaan Louw, PT, PhD- Director of International Spine and Pain Institute, published clinical PT researcher, international lecturer on treatment of pain utilizing biopsychosocial approach including “Therapeutic Neuroscience Education”; author of published clinical manual on educating patients about pain pre-lumbar surgery.

                            Not bad for a bunch of simpletons.
                            It was there for at least a few minutes, and then it was gone. And now, I can't make comments at all. When I click on the Disqus icon, it flashes "successful login" but my name never appears to click on to post the comment.

                            I think he's banned me.
                            John Ware, PT
                            Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
                            "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
                            “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
                            be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Ok, I was able to log in to Disqus and post it again. Let's see if it stays up.
                              John Ware, PT
                              Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
                              "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
                              “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
                              be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Nope, it's gone again.
                                John Ware, PT
                                Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
                                "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
                                “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
                                be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

                                Comment

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