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Mick Thacker's thoughts on pain

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  • #31
    Evanthis, I have a bit of trouble with this:
    Pain is not supposed to be a problem, but a solution.
    I see pain as the experience that CAN lead to a solution of a problem or potential problem.
    In itself, I think pain that we encounter in our patients can be called a problem as well.
    We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are - Anais Nin

    I suppose it's easier to believe something than it is to understand it.
    Cmdr. Chris Hadfield on rise of poor / pseudo science

    Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley

    We don't need a body to feel a body. Ronald Melzack

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Bas Asselbergs View Post
      Evanthis, I have a bit of trouble with this:

      I see pain as the experience that CAN lead to a solution of a problem or potential problem.
      In itself, I think pain that we encounter in our patients can be called a problem as well.

      Depending on how we look at pain, that is a valid point Bas. From the organism’s self preservation perspective, pain’s role is to protect [perceived] damaged tissue and motivate withdrawal from [perceived] threat to the body. What is causing this process (pain) in itself is not a problem, but the organism's solution to insure survival (self preservation). From the brain's (to be more accurate consciousness) perspective, pain is a problem indeed as it is an unpleasant experience which leads to suffering.

      From the therapist's perspective, pain is a problem indeed that needs to be "fixed". I think that the care we provide reduces one's suffering, but our care (including education) is not always sufficient to alter pain. Looking at pain as a problem that needs solution suggests that as therapists we know this solution, which is not entirely true, we don't even understand the excact mechanism of effectiveness of what we do. From my own experience, I find it therapeutic to look at pain (not suffering) as something positive.
      -Evan. The postings on this site are my own and do not represent the views or policies of my employer or APTA.
      The reason why an intellectual community is necessary is that it offers the only hope of grasping the whole. -Robert Maynard Hutchins.

      Comment


      • #33
        Yes I would

        Thanks for your response Diane and good to see you are now interested in the tri/quad/tetra partite synapse! I would happily take part in one of your interview sessions.

        Best
        Mick

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Drmickthacker View Post
          Thanks for your response Diane and good to see you are now interested in the tri/quad/tetra partite synapse! I would happily take part in one of your interview sessions.

          Best
          Mick

          :clap2:
          Great news! Thank you. We'll work out the details on that shortly.

          I had never not been interested in glia - they are neural crest after all..
          and synapses in particular since reading Seth Grant's papers (2008) about how they drive evolution. I had not come across "tripartite" before, though, so thank you for bringing that here.

          Who do you recommend starting with? I tracked down Araque 1999 - any others? Make us a quick reading list and we'll catch up around here, have no fear. :angel:

          Note: June 25/ 2014. Correction: they are from neural tube, not neural crest.
          Last edited by Diane; 25-06-2014, 05:04 PM.
          Diane
          www.dermoneuromodulation.com
          SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
          HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
          Neurotonics PT Teamblog
          Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
          Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
          @PainPhysiosCan
          WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
          @WCPTPTPN
          Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

          @dfjpt
          SomaSimple on Facebook
          @somasimple

          "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

          “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

          “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

          "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

          "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

          Comment


          • #35
            He never did participate in that interview.

            I asked him about it a few times on twitter, but he ignored the tweets. Oh well.

            Now, about this:
            Glial cells outnumber neurones in the central nervous by about 20 to 1.
            Some would beg to differ.
            "..there are not 10 times more glial cells than neurons in the human brain, but at most 1 glial cell to every neuron in the whole brain"
            Suzana Herculano-Houzel, comparative anatomist and neuroscientist.

            http://www.suzanaherculanohouzel.com/lab

            Her TED talk.

            Neurons outnumber glia? Yup, a fact learned from a MOOCer. (This is a MOOC I'm taking at the moment, with Peggy Mason, of impeccable neuroanatomy credential. She explains the count in this blogpost.)
            Diane
            www.dermoneuromodulation.com
            SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
            HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
            Neurotonics PT Teamblog
            Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
            Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
            @PainPhysiosCan
            WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
            @WCPTPTPN
            Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

            @dfjpt
            SomaSimple on Facebook
            @somasimple

            "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

            “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

            “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

            "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

            "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

            Comment


            • #36
              Tx for the links

              Actually I didn't know that

              In addition, by picking out the neurons specifically, we see that the cerebellum, while containing about half of all the brain’s cells, contains a whopping 80% of the brain’s neurons. Granule cells make up virtually the entire complement of cerebellar neurons.
              And that the percentage of glia to neuron ratio differs per brain region.

              Interesting material Diane.
              Marcel

              "Evolution is a tinkerer not an engineer" F.Jacob
              "Without imperfection neither you nor I would exist" Stephen Hawking

              Comment


              • #37
                I know. It's crazy isn't it?

                Anyway, I've contacted Mick Thacker with this news. I hope he deigns to answer.

                Here is a link to the 2011 paper by Herculano-Houzel.
                Attached Files
                Diane
                www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                @PainPhysiosCan
                WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                @WCPTPTPN
                Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                @dfjpt
                SomaSimple on Facebook
                @somasimple

                "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                Comment


                • #38
                  Here is another important paper that busts up the idea that there is a 20:1 ratio of glia to neurons in the human brain. LINK

                  Here is a free paper: The remarkable, yet not extraordinary, human brain as a scaled-up primate brain and its associated cost.
                  Diane
                  www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                  SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                  HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                  Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                  Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                  Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                  @PainPhysiosCan
                  WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                  @WCPTPTPN
                  Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                  @dfjpt
                  SomaSimple on Facebook
                  @somasimple

                  "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                  “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                  “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                  "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                  "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                  Comment

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