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  • Ref Crackin' necks again...

    Anyone have access to this and the ensuing responses? In Pdf Format maybe?

    http://www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e3679?tab=responses

  • #2
    There is an "easy view" feature on the page - when you click on that, you get a pdf view, and can save it to desktop. Is that what you mean?
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    Last edited by Diane; 15-11-2012, 08:35 PM.
    Diane
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    "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

    “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

    “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

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    • #3
      Yes...that's it for sure! I missed the Pdf link I guess.

      So...where I work there seems to be a building desire to have proficiently qualified "neck crackers" available to patients.

      This one is being cited:

      http://www.jospt.org/issues/articleI...cle_detail.asp


      Has this been critiqued here before?

      Comment


      • #4
        Being a technology goof...I'm finally going to ask this question: How do you attach a pdf article here? Like I see people do often?

        Comment


        • #5
          I read recently of a "cranioneckular antispasmification technique."

          Might that be what we're talking about here?
          Barrett L. Dorko

          Comment


          • #6
            Never mind...used that crazy search tool and found that indeed...it's been here (I even commented on the thread!)

            Should have known...nothing get's by this crew!

            Comment


            • #7
              cranioneckular antispasmification technique
              Ha! good one BD! :clap2:
              Diane
              www.dermoneuromodulation.com
              SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
              HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
              Neurotonics PT Teamblog
              Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
              Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
              @PainPhysiosCan
              WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
              @WCPTPTPN
              Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

              @dfjpt
              SomaSimple on Facebook
              @somasimple

              "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

              “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

              “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

              "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

              Comment


              • #8
                I have to give credit to Bob Garfield.

                Not a fan of chiropractors or manipulative technique.
                Barrett L. Dorko

                Comment


                • #9
                  Have you presented the powers to be this study?:

                  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15990659
                  Rob Willcott Physiotherapist

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Why does this debate keep going on? Let's say for a moment it is safe (just a moment...). If the intervention being discussed didn't involve 'good hands,' 'advanced skills,' lots of money or audible sounds, it would have been abandoned by now.

                    The Chiros show no benefit...
                    Hurwitz, E. L., Morgenstern, H., Harber, P., Kominski, G. F., Yu, F., & Adams, A. H. (2002). A randomized trial of chiropractic manipulation and mobilization for patients with neck pain: clinical outcomes from the UCLA neck-pain study. American journal of public health, 92(10), 1634–1641.

                    Poor research methods meant to favor HVLA still failed to do so...
                    Leaver, A. M., Maher, C. G., Herbert, R. D., Latimer, J., McAuley, J. H., Jull, G., & Refshauge, K. M. (2010). A Randomized Controlled Trial Comparing Manipulation With Mobilization for Recent Onset Neck Pain. Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, 91(9), 1313–1318. doi:10.1016/j.apmr.2010.06.006

                    More D.C. work not showing additional benefit...
                    Leininger, B., Bronfort, G., Evans, R., & Reiter, T. (2011). Spinal manipulation or mobilization for radiculopathy: a systematic review. Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation Clinics of North America, 22(1), 105–125. doi:10.1016/j.pmr.2010.11.002

                    Not too much support in 2004
                    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15247576

                    or 2010
                    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20510644

                    Or vs. kinesiotape...
                    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22523090

                    Even mechanism based research shows minimal effect on pain and mobility
                    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22711239
                    "The views expressed here are my own and do not reflect the views of my employer."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mrupe82 View Post
                      Why does this debate keep going on? Let's say for a moment it is safe (just a moment...). If the intervention being discussed didn't involve 'good hands,' 'advanced skills,' lots of money or audible sounds, it would have been abandoned by now.

                      The Chiros show no benefit...
                      Hurwitz, E. L., Morgenstern, H., Harber, P., Kominski, G. F., Yu, F., & Adams, A. H. (2002). A randomized trial of chiropractic manipulation and mobilization for patients with neck pain: clinical outcomes from the UCLA neck-pain study. American journal of public health, 92(10), 1634–1641.

                      Poor research methods meant to favor HVLA still failed to do so...
                      Leaver, A. M., Maher, C. G., Herbert, R. D., Latimer, J., McAuley, J. H., Jull, G., & Refshauge, K. M. (2010). A Randomized Controlled Trial Comparing Manipulation With Mobilization for Recent Onset Neck Pain. Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, 91(9), 1313–1318. doi:10.1016/j.apmr.2010.06.006

                      More D.C. work not showing additional benefit...
                      Leininger, B., Bronfort, G., Evans, R., & Reiter, T. (2011). Spinal manipulation or mobilization for radiculopathy: a systematic review. Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation Clinics of North America, 22(1), 105–125. doi:10.1016/j.pmr.2010.11.002

                      Not too much support in 2004
                      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15247576

                      or 2010
                      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20510644

                      Or vs. kinesiotape...
                      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22523090

                      Even mechanism based research shows minimal effect on pain and mobility
                      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22711239

                      More! More! Thanks for this input.

                      The powers that "be" are using the cervical manip CPR as some sort of justification to source special manipulators ( FCAMPT OR CHIRO).

                      I'll post the article in SS tomorrow.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here's a few more:

                        Attempts to identify those patients at risk for adverse reaction from cervical manipulation have not been successful:
                        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12195461

                        SMT is independently associated with vertebral artery dissection:
                        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12743225

                        Risk of cervical manipulation outweighs the benefit:
                        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12217065

                        In the interest of patient safety we should reconsider our policy towards the routine use of spinal manipulation:
                        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17606755
                        Rob Willcott Physiotherapist

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I am interested to know why your department would think to recommend cervical manipulation based on one study?
                          Rob Willcott Physiotherapist

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                          • #14
                            I guess his departement doesn't care much about research studies to guide treatment decisions.

                            Am I right Proud?
                            Frédéric Wellens, pht
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                            «
                            Those who cannot understand how to put their thoughts on ice should not enter into the heat of debate.
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                            • #15
                              Diane recently started a thread on Neck Manipulation following some discussion in the literature regarding it's use. I think it is applicable for this discussion.

                              My thoughts on the risk vs. harm HERE and HERE within that thread.
                              Kyle Ridgeway, PT, DPT
                              PT Think Tank |@Dr_Ridge_DPT | Google+
                              "It takes a deep commitment to change and an even deeper commitment to grow." - Ralph Ellison

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