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  • ??? Nerve Flossing / Neural Glide

    I have run across a few threads now that mention Nerve Flossing, which after doing a little searching via the SS site, seems (to me) to be aka "Neural Glide".

    I have not heard of either, I would be very appreciative if anyone who knows more on these subjects could point me in the direction of "good" information. If you want to comment, along with your links, I'll be pleased to read that too.

    I have done a few google searches, but, since I graduated 20 years ago, and did not hear of this while in school or over the years, I would like to make sure that I don't get a bastardized explanation or view, if possible (as many which turn up in the google search are DC related).

    I am certainly not averse to reading info put out by any DC who uses these techniques, but if this is a PT concept, I think it may make more sense to get it from the *original* horses mouth.

    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by Curious One; 29-10-2012, 05:15 PM. Reason: - correction of sentence completion
    C.O. ( gender: ) - LMT, BS(Anatomy), DC
    Music Fog... pick a song to listen to... you can't go wrong.
    Need relaxation samples for your office? I have made a Deep Relaxation Massage Music Pandora Station and have others that may also be useful - about 8 massage music stations and about 49 other nifty options.

  • #2
    Look up papers/books on the topic by David Butler, Michael Shacklock. They talk about somebody who was before my time, called Elvy or Elvey.
    Diane
    www.dermoneuromodulation.com
    SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
    HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
    Neurotonics PT Teamblog
    Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
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    @PainPhysiosCan
    WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
    @WCPTPTPN
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    @dfjpt
    SomaSimple on Facebook
    @somasimple

    "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

    “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

    “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

    "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

    "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Diane View Post
      Look up papers/books on the topic by David Butler, Michael Shacklock. They talk about somebody who was before my time, called Elvy or Elvey.
      Hi Diane,

      Thanks for the response.

      Could someone let me know what the connection is with ART as well? I just ran across a link and want to be knowledgable of any connection or mis-connection.

      Thanks in advance.
      C.O. ( gender: ) - LMT, BS(Anatomy), DC
      Music Fog... pick a song to listen to... you can't go wrong.
      Need relaxation samples for your office? I have made a Deep Relaxation Massage Music Pandora Station and have others that may also be useful - about 8 massage music stations and about 49 other nifty options.

      Comment


      • #4
        There isn't any connection, as far as I know.
        Diane
        www.dermoneuromodulation.com
        SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
        HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
        Neurotonics PT Teamblog
        Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
        Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
        @PainPhysiosCan
        WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
        @WCPTPTPN
        Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

        @dfjpt
        SomaSimple on Facebook
        @somasimple

        "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

        “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

        “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

        "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

        "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

        Comment


        • #5
          So far I have located the following document, which looks like a step in the right direction. It seems I may have been working with neural glide and never even knew it, after looking at the cervical lateral glide information.

          Robert J. Nee
          a,*, David Butler b

          a


          School of Physical Therapy, Pacific University, Forest Grove, OR 97116, USA

          b


          Neuro Orthopedic Institute, Adelaide City West, SA, Australia
          Received 2 September 2005; received in revised form 29 September 2005; accepted 3 October 2005



          I'll keep looking around, and if no one wants to add any information to this thread, I'll just post what I locate for anyone else who may have been wondering.

          Any and all input is greatly appreciated, as I feel I am starting at square one.

          Thanks in advance.
          C.O. ( gender: ) - LMT, BS(Anatomy), DC
          Music Fog... pick a song to listen to... you can't go wrong.
          Need relaxation samples for your office? I have made a Deep Relaxation Massage Music Pandora Station and have others that may also be useful - about 8 massage music stations and about 49 other nifty options.

          Comment


          • #6
            I also located this link to a video which describes "median nerve progression" or "neurodynamic progression", which is very similar to something I do for myself intermittently.

            Just so I know if I am on the right track or moving in the wrong direction, would this be something similar or considered to be the same as neural glide / nerve flossing?

            Again, thanks in advance.
            Last edited by Curious One; 30-10-2012, 01:00 AM. Reason: - spelling error
            C.O. ( gender: ) - LMT, BS(Anatomy), DC
            Music Fog... pick a song to listen to... you can't go wrong.
            Need relaxation samples for your office? I have made a Deep Relaxation Massage Music Pandora Station and have others that may also be useful - about 8 massage music stations and about 49 other nifty options.

            Comment


            • #7
              It's a good start. Thank you for taking it on. :angel:
              Diane
              www.dermoneuromodulation.com
              SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
              HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
              Neurotonics PT Teamblog
              Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
              Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
              @PainPhysiosCan
              WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
              @WCPTPTPN
              Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

              @dfjpt
              SomaSimple on Facebook
              @somasimple

              "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

              “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

              “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

              "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

              Comment


              • #8
                CO,
                Do a Pubmed search for Coppieters MW for research articles investigating neurodynamics.
                John Ware, PT
                Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
                "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
                “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
                be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

                Comment


                • #9
                  Timely reference John thank you. Coppieters MW seems to be doing excellent research.

                  J Physiother. 2012;58(1):23-31.
                  Neural tissue management provides immediate clinically relevant benefits without harmful effects for patients with nerve-related neck and arm pain: a randomised trial.
                  Nee RJ, Vicenzino B, Jull GA, Cleland JA, Coppieters MW.
                  Source
                  Division of Physiotherapy, School of Health and Rehabilitation Sciences, The University of Queensland, Australia.
                  Abstract
                  QUESTION:
                  What are the benefits and harms of neural tissue management in the short term for treating nerve-related neck and arm pain?

                  DESIGN:
                  Randomised controlled trial.

                  PARTICIPANTS:
                  Sixty participants with non-traumatic nerve-related neck and unilateral arm pain were randomised to experimental (n=40) or control (n=20) groups.

                  INTERVENTION:
                  Both groups were advised to continue usual activities. The experimental group also received education, manual therapy, and nerve gliding exercises in 4 treatments over 2 weeks.

                  OUTCOME MEASURES:
                  Primary outcomes were participant-reported improvement and worsening on a Global Rating of Change scale. Secondary outcomes were neck pain, arm pain, the Neck Disability Index, the Patient-Specific Functional Scale, and adverse events related to treatment. Follow-up occurred 3-4 weeks after baseline.

                  RESULTS:
                  Numbers needed to treat favoured the experimental intervention for participant-reported improvement (2.7, 95% CI 1.7 to 6.5), neck pain (3.6, 95% CI 2.1 to 10), arm pain (3.6, 95% CI 2.1 to 10), Neck Disability Index (4.3, 95% CI 2.4 to 18.2), and Patient-Specific Functional Scale (3.0, 95% CI 1.9 to 6.7). The prevalence of worsening in the experimental (13%) and control (20%) groups were not different (RD -7%, 95% CI -28 to 13). Adverse events had minimal impact on daily activities and did not reduce the chance of improving with the experimental intervention (RR = 1.03, 95% CI 0.58 to 1.84).

                  CONCLUSION:
                  These results enable physiotherapists to inform patients that neural tissue management provides immediate clinically relevant benefits beyond advice to remain active with no evidence of harmful effects.
                  Karen

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Karen L View Post
                    Timely reference John thank you. Coppieters MW seems to be doing excellent research.



                    Karen
                    Nice!
                    Anyone have a PDF of that study?
                    Tim Irving DC, MS, LMT

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I moderated the previous post to the Sound of Silence. Link

                      Thanks to Mark Hollis.

                      Karen

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks to everyone responding here.

                        Since I am still learning about Nerve Flossing / Neural Glide, I think now is a good time to ask the following:
                        "Is this a technique that is regularly taught to PT's in school, or is this something most of you learned elsewhere?"

                        and,

                        "Since I am finding information on it across the internet, is it commonly used, moderately or minimal?"

                        That may help to get me started a little better. Looking up the docs is a great thing for me to do, but since I don't even know much about it, I'd love to get some sort of base-line.

                        So far, this is what I have come up with from the initial suggestions of Diane. I have not had a chance to follow up on any one elses thoughts yet.

                        If any information can or should be added to these that follow, I am open to listening.
                        • "Nerve mobilization consists of applying gentle, precise pressure to a fixated or restricted nerve in order to glide or floss it through the nerve sheath that houses the nerve inside a tube like structure. Performing a mobilization on the nerve fixation will free the nerve and will help restore the proper signaling to the compromised structure that it innervates and therefore improve the function of the muscle, organ, or fascia." http://www.stevekravitz.com/blog/
                        • A SomaSimple link which describes M. Shacklock's course: Shacklock's course

                        • A link to read part or all of Shacklock's book: Clinical Neurodynamics


                        • While searching for Elvey, I ran across a course that Toby Hall (mentioned in the Hall, Elvey research bibliographies) teaches: Orthopaedic Manual Therapy Course
                           
                          "
                          Toby Hall and Bob Elvey have worked closely together for many years and have developed some of the most important and recent advances in manual therapy. Toby instructs participants in the pathogenesis, assessment and management of neural tissue pain disorders. Classification of spinal pain disorders is an important aspect of this course. The syllabus will encompass evidence based examination procedures required to determine various types of sub-classifications of pain disorders. For example neural pain disorders are classified according to three categories of sensory hypersensitivity, denervation, and peripheral nerve sensitization. This information is very important as it drives treatment choices and is important for identification of patients suitable for neural tissue mobilization techniques."




                        • Then I located Elvey here: Physical evaluation of the peripheral nervous system in disorders of pain and dysfunction

                        Affiliations
                        Correspondence and reprint requests to Robert L. Elvey, School of Physiotherapy, Curtin University, Selby Street, Shenton Park WA 6008, Western Australia
                        School of Physiotherapy Curtin University of Technology Shenton Park, Western Australia



                        • Last, I ran across this statement in an article NERVE SENSITIVITY – ALTERED NEURODYNAMICS

                          "The landmark work of David Butler & Bob Elvey has been central to the integration of neural sensitivity assessment for musculoskeletal clinicians and has give physiotherapists potent weapons in their armoury. Technically speaking, this classification of pain is considered as peripheral neuropathic pain as defined by the International Association for the Study of Pain and is distinct from pain originating from other peripheral tissues because of the nature of the symptoms produced and its response characteristics."

                          I was wondering if anyone has the inclination to speak on peripheral neuropathic pain as mentioned here?
                        Thanks in advance.
                        Last edited by Curious One; 30-10-2012, 04:06 PM. Reason: -formatting
                        C.O. ( gender: ) - LMT, BS(Anatomy), DC
                        Music Fog... pick a song to listen to... you can't go wrong.
                        Need relaxation samples for your office? I have made a Deep Relaxation Massage Music Pandora Station and have others that may also be useful - about 8 massage music stations and about 49 other nifty options.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What is your question?
                          Diane
                          www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                          SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                          HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                          Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                          Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                          Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                          @PainPhysiosCan
                          WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                          @WCPTPTPN
                          Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                          @dfjpt
                          SomaSimple on Facebook
                          @somasimple

                          "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                          “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                          “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                          "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                          "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think they are in blue! Diana

                            marc

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, I know they are in blue. I was looking specifically at this one.. "I was wondering if anyone has the inclination to speak on peripheral neuropathic pain as mentioned here?"
                              It's a big topic. Could the asker be a little bit more specific?
                              Diane
                              www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                              SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                              HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                              Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                              Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                              Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                              @PainPhysiosCan
                              WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                              @WCPTPTPN
                              Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                              @dfjpt
                              SomaSimple on Facebook
                              @somasimple

                              "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                              “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                              “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                              "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                              Comment

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