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  • #31
    factoids

    http://mindblog.dericbownds.net/2013...t-of-good.html

    l liked the succinct post here ...

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    • #32
      Like a bird on the wire,
      Like a drunk in a midnight choir
      I have tried in my way to be free.
      Like a worm on a hook,
      Like a knight from some old fashioned book
      I have saved all my ribbons for thee.
      If I, if I have been unkind,
      I hope that you can just let it go by.
      If I, if I have been untrue
      I hope you know it was never to you.

      Leonard Cohen
      Last edited by angaho; 13-11-2013, 01:43 AM. Reason: Give the credit to the creator

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      • #33
        meditation

        Simon if you are still about and interested there is a Zen sitting group that i sat with once a week for about 6 months while i was living in melbourne a couple of years ago.It really helped me when i was going through a pretty difficult time. They sit tues evenings at Ceres and are attatched to two teachers based in Sydney Subhana and Susan Murphy. I sat a retreat with Subhana while I was there and have sat with her a couple of times in india in the 90's. Shes the buisness. Susan Murphy has written a book called upside down Zen which is deep and wide. I am fond of the forms but theyre not for everyone- the chanting and ritual can grate if you dont relate.et me
        I am up for further conversation around this subject if there is interest. Its been a major thread through my life for more than 20 years now and yes i would say that interoception and the anterior insula rock.
        as does leonard cohen- currently reading I'm your Man

        Lloyd

        ps loving seeing that old photo of my boys
        wow time flys
        Last edited by lloyd; 11-02-2014, 11:59 PM.

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        • #34
          I'm relatively new here, and have been taking some time to look around at what's on offer. I haven't seen much on the subject of meditation at all, which surprised me given how much talk there is here about how the brain's perceptions affect the body.

          I am familiar with John Kabat-Zinn's work, which basically takes Buddhist practice and remodels the language to a more neutral platform to make it more acceptable to a medical audience. Which I think is fine, and obviously worked given MBSR's popularity. Though I prefer his partner's work and explanations in his excellent book, Heal Thy Self: Lessons in Mindfulness in Medicine.

          It also surprises me that no one in this thread has yet mentioned the Yoga Sutras, given how foundational they are to the study of meditation. And so I am curious as to how many here would agree that a daily meditation practice would be useful for chronic pain patients, and why or why not?

          Is this something that is just not on your radar because you are focused on other modalities, or have you discounted it's effectiveness?

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          • #35
            Erica, those aspects of treatment of pain have actually been talked about in some of the threads - Kabat-Zinn, yoga, mindfulness, meditation.

            Their usefulness for persistent pain has actually been studied, and the references are here on Soma somewhere.....
            We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are - Anais Nin

            I suppose it's easier to believe something than it is to understand it.
            Cmdr. Chris Hadfield on rise of poor / pseudo science

            Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley

            We don't need a body to feel a body. Ronald Melzack

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            • #36
              That does not mean they have been exhaustively discussed...
              I for one, am certainly interested to hear what you have to say or present about these!
              We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are - Anais Nin

              I suppose it's easier to believe something than it is to understand it.
              Cmdr. Chris Hadfield on rise of poor / pseudo science

              Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley

              We don't need a body to feel a body. Ronald Melzack

              Comment


              • #37
                It also surprises me that no one in this thread has yet mentioned the Yoga Sutras, given how foundational they are to the study of meditation. And so I am curious as to how many here would agree that a daily meditation practice would be useful for chronic pain patients, and why or why not?

                This thread might interest you.

                http://www.somasimple.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12517
                Jo Bowyer
                Chartered Physiotherapist Registered Osteopath.
                "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi

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                • #38
                  Thanks Bas and Jo. I did have a look at the thread you mentioned, and while interesting it didn't really seem to focus on daily meditation at all. Also, the information as to the origins of yoga and asana weren't entirely accurate, but that is a whole other topic. My husband would really be the better person to dive into this subject, as he does comparative sutra study almost daily, but I will try to wade in myself.

                  Also, I am trying to work my way through the vast amount of information here, so if I bring up something that has already been covered please be patient with me.

                  Darn, must dash. Said husband needs some attention. Will try to write again tomorrow.

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                  • #39
                    Okay, took me a bit but I'm back. I dug a little further into the thread you mentioned Jo, and was interested to read the bits about yoga. I would have to agree that most yoga practiced in North America today is just exercise, and badly done, potentially injurious exercise at that. Which is rather sad considering yoga asana was originally meant to be a pre meditation practice to quiet down the body so one could focus on what the mind was doing.
                    But going back to the meditation side of things, does anyone here teach meditation to their patients, or recommend they take it up as a way to help manage their pain?

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                    • #40
                      I do.
                      I call what I do mindfulness-based physical therapy.
                      I have learned some ACT (Acceptance and commitment Therapy), basic MBSR technique and have practiced various techniques for meditation and mindfulness for over 25 years, so I just pick whatever feels right in the moment, as treatment.
                      Many patients come to me with a background where they have come in contact with meditation, yoga and/or Qi Gong before. They mostly want or seem to need support in practicing more often and somehow make the practice their own.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by angaho View Post
                        I do.
                        I call what I do mindfulness-based physical therapy.
                        Angaho,
                        I would summarize mindfulness in the folowing steps: 5 to 6 breathings pro minute; Be attentive to breathing; then atention to the body through proprioception; and then be aware to our thoughts; observing the thoughts as if they were "separated" from us; Do not make jugements about our thoughts. And this will be meditation. And this will bring peace and wellness to us.
                        Is it right to summarize mindfulness as i did it here now? In your practice are those steps, the steps you did with the people asking you as a practioner to do mindfulness with them?
                        North Portugal
                        Benjamim Fontes

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                        • #42
                          Angaho,
                          Yes! I would like to have you speaking a litle more about your practice focusing on those steps breathing, proprioception and "proprioception" from the thought process.
                          North Portugal
                          Benjamim Fontes

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                          • #43
                            Meditation

                            Hey Erica, I have a small challenge with regular seated meditation. While I do think the benefits of meditation seem to have been fairly well proven, I also see the benefits of movement as, dare I say, more important. I also think that it may be possible to make this a mindful movement practice that gives the benefits of meditation without getting people to do more sitting or stillness, which currently we are in a little excess of as a culture.
                            There is a thread around here about Tim Parks' book" Teach us to sit still". The book was specifically about his journey through intense chronic pelvic pain and the help he got from
                            Meditation. May be of value to your reading.
                            Last edited by byronselorme; 19-07-2014, 02:57 AM. Reason: misspelled
                            Byron Selorme -SomaSimpleton and Science Based Yoga Educator
                            Shavasana Yoga Center

                            "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" Richard Feynman

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                            • #44
                              I have a small challenge with regular seated meditation. While I do think the benefits of meditation seem to have been fairly well proven, I also see the benefits of movement as, dare I say, more important. I also think that it may be possible to make this a mindful movement practice that gives the benefits of meditation without getting people to do more sitting or stillness, which currently we are in a little excess of as a culture.
                              There's a whole tradition of walking meditation. Mindful movement is the bulk of my own interventions. Though defining meditation can be hard, so I'm not quite sure if what I do would be considered meditation. I have though done various forms of meditation for about 14 years.

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                              • #45
                                Feldenkrais is a wonderful form of mindfulness, as is simple contact.

                                We should also be aware of the darker side of meditation. This is more likely with those who are intensely into meditation.


                                "The Dark Knight of the Soul"
                                http://www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...-souls/372766/

                                I would never teach meditation to someone with a history of mental illness. If I think they may benefit from it I refer them to a mental health specialist for guidance.
                                Last edited by Nairb; 19-07-2014, 11:26 AM.

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