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Enough is Enough

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  • SMEGC
    replied
    Ah thank tried in chrome and it still didn't work but it did for firefox. Go figure.

    Cheers

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  • Keith
    replied
    Hi Clinton, sometimes members of the site have difficulties opening certain PDF files across different operating systems/software. The doc in the first post downloaded and looked fine (to me, on my machine) this morning...I just re-saved/exported it. Perhaps this one will work?

    Respectfully,
    Keith
    Attached Files

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  • SMEGC
    replied
    Hi there,

    Just wondering if I could get a copy of the enough is enough pdf that is located in the first post of this thread. Ive tried downloading it several time but when I open it there no text present other than the title: Enough is Enough

    Cheers,
    Clinton

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  • valpospine
    replied
    hey guys, give some time!!!!!!
    yes John W. you are right(speculating) Valpo is the short name for Valparaiso. Small town east of Chicago. but, hang on. I have nothing to hide though. (not hiding in a cellar nor under the desk)(truly, besides the fact that I had to work today, I was gathering info , either from the net, or through contacts that may know more about your philosophy.
    I still havent gathered enough so, I'm still in the process.
    and Barrett, sorry, but with all the respect, with the info available on the net, there is no way people are going to understand what "simple contact " is. (it was clearly expressed in your simple contact blog where you were getting frustrated with people not understanding you).
    (someone told me that it was a skin based approach). yes , I know, reading your posts that you want people to understand that it is more than a technique. (I read you). again, give me some time.
    I'm not avoiding answering. I'm just working on it...
    but please, understand this. if I'm here, it is just because I truly believe (even though I come from a very mechanistic manual therapy school) that there is more to do than just mechanical treatments, corrective exercises and so on...
    I enjoyed reading the info. I just have some questions about the way you seem to be applying it.
    anyway, I'm coming back. David

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  • John W
    replied
    I'm wondering where "Valpospine" went.
    I'm speculating (again), but "Valpo" is often the shortened nickname for "Valparaiso, which is a small college town in northwestern Indiana about an hour southeast of Chicago. Now we've been hearing about devastating tornadoes in the southern part of that state, but I haven't heard of anything similar that far north.

    So, while I doubt Valpospine is hiding in his cellar, he may be hiding under his desk.

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  • Barrett Dorko
    replied
    Thanks Fletch,

    I'm wondering where "Valpospine" went.

    We had some questions.

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  • Fletch
    replied
    Originally posted by Barrett Dorko View Post
    I worked and taught alongside Paris for four years during the late seventies, talked to him intermittantly, saw him present over the years, conducted a workshop for Stan, his faculty and staff in Florida in '08 and listened to him interviewed recently.

    No real change as far as I can see.
    Barrett, I love this! It amazes me how many people fail to see what you, Jason, Diane, Bas et al have been exposed to over your careers. You guys have learnt from, taught alongside etc various 'meso idols'. I find it funny how people just assume you 'don't understand' or perhaps 'didn't get it'. You guys should have an avatar of been there, done that, got the t-shirt (certification), now time to focus on the reality.

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  • MaxG
    replied
    Originally posted by Jason Silvernail View Post
    Thanks, Max, good comments, and no offense taken. I did ask for feedback. If you have some suggestions for getting me and them on the same road sooner rather than later, I'm all ears. Vielen dank-
    Maybe a mission statement or disclaimer to start the article off.
    It may sound silly, but look at it as an invitational sign on the bridge leading over the chasm. "We mean no harm, we just want to find out the -why- of things; come check it out".

    It is important to have contrarians, but contrarians tend to invite polarization of the crowd.
    Eventually, this might enstrange able minds on both sides of the "chasm" (if it hasn't already).

    Rather than emphasizing the "chasm" between both sides, building bridges to let people cross it more readily (ideally making it obsolete) should be the goal.

    I think this is especially important when targeting newer minds, not yet deeply invested in any particular dogma.

    In counseling, opposing parties are usually encouraged to first reveal their differences, then find a common ground to work things out.
    So instead of saying "this and this is wrong with what you are teaching", say "what you do seems to work, I have an idea why it might".

    Neuroscience in general has a hard time being accepted on an emotional level, I think. At first glance it seems kind of "unsexy".
    Damasio mentions this a couple of times in "Descarte's Error", when talking about the neurobiology of feelings and how knowledge of the chemical and neural mechanisms behind a certain feeling or sensation in no way lessens its worth to that person.
    To paraphrase: "Feeling good might "just" be a rush of neurotrasmitters acting on an excited neural pattern, but it still feels just as good." (simplified of course)

    Same thing goes for thrust manips. They might "just" be a sudden push through the joint's ROM, affecting nociceptive signalling to the brain. They might still give the patient comfort though.

    I find the whole issue much more fascinating this way actually. That an intervention with such force can leave the structural body completely unchanged and still have such a profound effect on body perception is miraculous, if you ask me.

    Excuse the long ramble. It's late already and I shouldn't be sitting here posting, but catching up on some sleep. I hope this makes as much sense when I read it tomorrow as it does to me right now.

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  • Jason Silvernail
    replied
    Originally posted by MaxG View Post
    When your approach continously evolves for over a decade or so in a particular direction, I think you sometimes forget all the crossroads and detours you've encountered along the way.
    This leads to many misconceptions when talking directions to people who are on a completely different highway.
    No offense intended, Jason.
    Thanks, Max, good comments, and no offense taken. I did ask for feedback. If you have some suggestions for getting me and them on the same road sooner rather than later, I'm all ears. Vielen dank-

    Leave a comment:


  • zimney3pt
    replied
    Great points Andy and Nari, once again looking at nouns instead of verbs as Diane always puts it.

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  • amacs
    replied
    The use of the word "toolbox" is suggesting that we treat inanimate objects like planes, trains and automobiles.
    Like machines - linear, organised, and unable to self repair. An approach that seems to reach beyond anatomical to mechanical and really doesn't seem to grasp the physiology of the process and in doing so risks depersonalisation of the individual.

    regards

    ANdy

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  • nari
    replied
    The use of the word "toolbox" is suggesting that we treat inanimate objects like planes, trains and automobiles.

    We actually treat living critters whose systems react one way or the other to our interventions to a higher degree than we probably will ever know.

    Nari

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  • Sheffphysio
    replied
    This thread brings back some memories as it brought me to SS from BIM.

    Speaking of tools and toolbox. I was in a meeting recently discussing the problem of new grad therapists getting thumb pain and having to change what they do or leave the profession. My question was "Rather than worry about what to do when a therapist gets thumb pain, shouldn't the bigger question be why are we teaching out new grad therapist to thump patients in the back so hard it damages their thumbs". There was a silence.........we moved on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bas Asselbergs
    replied
    "teammate" Bar does not think the same. he was able to "shed the luggage from all those methods"!!!(PainHead?)
    I'll forgive you your typo of my name, but not misinterpreting what I say and do (I have not been clear, probably).

    The "luggage" of all those manual specialization courses is mainly the associated explanation of the techniques or methods taught (joints, joints, joints, muscles, muscles, muscles); I got rid of those explanations.

    Second, the "luggage" of forceful manipulations of any body part has been thrown into the luggage caroussel at Heathrow; it will never make it back to me.

    I still use my hands, but more so my brain, and my thinking and listening capabilities.

    I hope it is now very clear that none of us regulars here have thrown out our experience (short or long) with our hands, our knowledge of biomechanics and tissue pathology, and so forth.......

    Leave a comment:


  • zimney3pt
    replied
    Originally posted by valpospine View Post
    modern neuroscience has a place in our tool box... just as much as the joint, the facets, and the muscles do.
    best regards.
    I wish we would get away from this whole tool box analogy, it is worthless in how we seem to use it.

    I can go down to the local hardware store and buy thousands of tools and get the largest toolbox in the world to store them all in, but unless I know how and when to use them they are worthless. More tools in my tool box does not make me a better carpenter. Knowing how and why a tool works makes me a better carpenter. Let's quit adding tools to our toolbox and just understand the tools we have. When we do this I think we will notice we can junk a lot of tools that we thought we needed.

    Leave a comment:

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