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Nari's thread: Skin rules!!

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  • #31
    Nari, it doesn't make much difference at all. Skin is skin, and nerve roots are nerve roots, it makes no difference how much or what type of mesoderm they encircle or plow through. The cutaneous roots flow outward (more superficially) at an oblique angle, and what's interesting in the leg as I study Clemente, is that roots of all nerves flow/fan superficially both directions, like ribbons round a maypole. Also, there is a deep branch of the obturator, the posterior branch, that dives in behind the knee to supply the joint. I just noticed that yesterday. Live and learn.

    Anyway, nice result! Good positive reinforcement for continuing. And you Mike? How is skin stretching going for you?
    Diane
    www.dermoneuromodulation.com
    SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
    HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
    Neurotonics PT Teamblog
    Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
    Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
    @PainPhysiosCan
    WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
    @WCPTPTPN
    Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

    @dfjpt
    SomaSimple on Facebook
    @somasimple

    "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

    “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

    “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

    "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

    "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

    Comment


    • #32
      "Cutaneous neurologic manual therapy"
      We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are - Anais Nin

      I suppose it's easier to believe something than it is to understand it.
      Cmdr. Chris Hadfield on rise of poor / pseudo science

      Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley

      We don't need a body to feel a body. Ronald Melzack

      Comment


      • #33
        Hey Bas,

        Doggonit, I was just getting used to "skin stretching."
        Barrett L. Dorko

        Comment


        • #34
          Diane ; allow me to comment please !

          Cutaneous is TOO suitable .
          Neurological is VERY unsuitable
          Manual is Suitable
          Therapy is unsuitable
          Manual Therapy is long
          modulation ?
          Cortex ?


          Cheers
          Emad
          :rose:

          Comment


          • #35
            Barrett, you know me - spinner of obfuscative verbosity....

            Actually, it is another attempt at bringing a cachet of elevated status to a gentle technique - it is so easy for "skin stretch" to be seen as "is that all you do" (even if it is!) by critics of neuromodulation/ideomotor - the expensive terminology may impress them....

            Emad - why is therapy unsuitable?
            And neurological? Isn't that the ONLY avenue of change? (cortical or deeper?)
            We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are - Anais Nin

            I suppose it's easier to believe something than it is to understand it.
            Cmdr. Chris Hadfield on rise of poor / pseudo science

            Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley

            We don't need a body to feel a body. Ronald Melzack

            Comment


            • #36
              Mike

              I did a horizontal stretch, along the approximate path of the nerve. I did not try taping, because I knew this patient very well and it would have annoyed her, having to deal with tape. She is near the end of her tether but her solid determination to help herself will not let go..fortunately. She has a great sense of self-efficacy and at least the skin lengthening is something she has full control over and can do without any passivity component.


              emad

              Can you say a bit more about your list? I don't understand fully what you mean.

              Nari

              Comment


              • #37
                How about integumental cutaneality/(ies)? Too polysyllabic?
                Cutaneality reality?
                I'm just blowing smoke. Never mind.
                Diane
                www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                @PainPhysiosCan
                WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                @WCPTPTPN
                Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                @dfjpt
                SomaSimple on Facebook
                @somasimple

                "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                Comment


                • #38
                  Nari;i was just comment regarding bas,s proposal of naming the technique
                  "Cutaneous neurologic manual therapy" in post number 32 .
                  Bas,
                  I think this technique is not neurological ,but it is neuro. ! Is there a difference ? Really,i do not know !
                  As for therapy ,therapy to some exteent for me meaning endoderm (please ,Diane correct me if i am wrong it is my first time to use this term) ,it is better to to speak/name ectoderm( CNS and cortex).

                  Cheers
                  Emad
                  :rose:

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Hope someone decides on a name soon. .......

                    In my own notes I have started to write cutaneous therapy; but in the report to the referring medico, I'm stuck. Usually I don't write anything about it. Our pain specialist will not allow us even to write 'central sensitisation' in case the referring doc thinks we are referring to a nutty patient. Ah well...

                    Nari

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I usually just write NM for neuromodulation or SS for skin stretching. When I add position to the mix, I write SS and PRT or NM and PRT.
                      I think the name "ectodermotherapy" would do the trick, includes and would cover skin and brain and anything neuro or neural or neurological in between.
                      Diane
                      www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                      SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                      HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                      Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                      Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                      Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                      @PainPhysiosCan
                      WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                      @WCPTPTPN
                      Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                      @dfjpt
                      SomaSimple on Facebook
                      @somasimple

                      "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                      “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                      “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                      "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                      "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Why not just Soft Tissue Manual Therapy?

                        eric
                        Eric Matheson, PT

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          There are so many various tests,, therapies (proven & otherwise) with fancy names. My immediate reaction to names which sound right out of a textbook is to ask;
                          1) Is it really what the words suggest
                          2) Is there any biological rationale/credibility - or all just hot air.

                          How about the putting the KISS principle into operation. Something like skin-stretch neuromodulation. It doesn't sound fancy but it conveys the message pretty quickly. SSNM or SSN as an abbreviation. I know a lot of other people like myself who are wary of complex names. The more complex the name, the more sceptical we are likely to be.

                          Jane

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            soft tissue manual therapy performers /practionners do not think of the cortex /brain /CNS on spot (while the perform the technique)

                            Cheers
                            Emad
                            :rose:

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Why not just Soft Tissue Manual Therapy?
                              That works... STMT or SST for soft tissue technique, at least it is acceptable in treatment notes in a medical legal sense..at least in BC.

                              I used those terms for years, but I'm trying to move on from there.. I don't want my stuff to be defined any more by a treatment acronym that means "anything and everything that is left over if you don't perform joint mob/manip." I've become bored with "vague." Since I'm going to the bother of discerning this stuff out of the other stuff by elucidating why's and wherefore's, I'm working on a name for it, but it sure seems hard to develop one. None of them seem very sticky. Ectodermotherapy comes the closest, but it still falls short.

                              Jane, skin-stretch neuro mod (SSNM) is descriptive, it has that going for it, just not very catchy or sticky.

                              Emad, if people don't think of the brain when they're on the spot, they should. Have they never heard of the sensory cortex?
                              Diane
                              www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                              SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                              HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                              Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                              Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                              Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                              @PainPhysiosCan
                              WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                              @WCPTPTPN
                              Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                              @dfjpt
                              SomaSimple on Facebook
                              @somasimple

                              "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                              “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                              “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                              "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I think they had heared of sensory cortex during undergarduate study ,but i propose teaching of this cortex using to kids even and in schools in learning .


                                Cheers
                                Emad
                                :rose:

                                Comment

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