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  • #46
    Inviting David Simons

    I would be happy to personally invite David Simons to this forum. I expect to see him next month at the International Myopain Society, World Congress on Fibromyalgia and Myofascial Pain in Washington Dc. www.myopain.org We would love to see some somasimple people there.I am moderating a session there and hope to invite a number of colleagues to this site to share, as I am learning a great deal. As you might surmise from the speaker list, this is a scientific meeting. At the 2003 meeting in Florida, David Butler gave a one day workshop as well as a key lecture.
    David has always been first and foremost a scientiist. Although slowing down a bit at 84, he is still quite active and sharp from a scientific perspective. He is in the process of writing and editing a 3rd edition of the Trigger Point Manual.

    Bryan

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    • #47
      ....... a paper that dismisses all direct TP work as ineffective.
      Julie, did you actually read it?

      I am disinclined to invite Dr. Simons here by sending him a paper that dismisses all direct TP work as ineffective. I certainly do not have a corresponding paper that shows the terrific efficacy of ideomotion, or DNM, or neuromobs, etc.
      I think this shows a degree of misunderstanding. As I stated in my paper, there is insufficient evidence that trigger point therapies treat trigger points, although there is some evidence that a few treatments that attempt to treat trigger points can improve pain-related outcome measures. The difference is in the construct. In the case of ideomotor therapy, no one is saying pain is caused by a dysfunction of the ideomotor system, or in DNM that the pain is caused by a dysfunction of the skin or cutaneous sensory feedback. If you say a certain pain is due to a MTrP, then you have to show that it exists, reliably locate it, AND that a treatment effectively eliminates the entity at the same time as symptoms improve. I won't go into the former now, but the latter issue simply hasn't been addressed sufficiently in research literature on MTrPs; in fact, it has barely been attempted.
      Luke Rickards
      Osteopath

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      • #48
        For further reading see the literature and research sections

        David G. Simons Academy
        "I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris

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        • #49
          Sorry all, I've been out of the loop for a bit.... off enjoying this AMAZING summer we are having with my kiddos. But I'm back.....

          Bryan, if you'd like to invite David Simons in person, that would be great. I would love to have him come here and discuss what he knows about the neurology involved with TPs.... I think it might be substantial. I could certainly follow-up your invitation with an emailed one. Let me know how he responds, and if you'd like me to do so.

          And I love the idea of having him do a formal interview here. He may actually be more interested in something like that than the more informal message boards.

          By the way, I went to the Myopain conference in Portland OR in 2001. I found myself renting a car and driving all the way home to Michigan in a complete daze, as I left the conference early when the planes flew into the twin towers. It was such a surreal time.

          Luke, touche.... I had only skimmed the article when I responded initially. Now I've read it, and concur. Sorry, and thanks for that.

          Julie

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