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How does skin move during movement?

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  • #16
    "Pain science" seems to have eclipsed "science" as the name of what is expected from some therapists. Since science isn't taught and most therapists stop learning as soon as they leave school, there's little need for any reason or pursuit of "science."

    I know this isn't a popular view, but it would explain a lot.

    These days (as opposed to some other days), therapists seem to want an additional method.
    Barrett L. Dorko

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    • #17
      Want or need? Humans learn to do by doing. It's klutzy, but that is the default state of the human brain. And only by age 25 is the brain myelinated enough to start to be able to execute, deploy it's ability to think for itself.
      Yeah, methods are what people (especially if young and insecure) seem to need, in order to practice being adults, until they fully are adults.
      Diane
      www.dermoneuromodulation.com
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      @dfjpt
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      "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

      “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

      “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

      "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

      "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

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      • #18
        I agree that adulthood is later than it's needed, but critical thinking occurs earlier, I suppose.

        Sometimes it never seems to show up. Being challenged and asked for defense of method is something you have no trouble with, but you're even older than I am. Also, you're not in Ohio.

        I can't get out of my head the "new grads welcomed" thing I read all the time.
        Barrett L. Dorko

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        • #19
          Yes this is what I was looking for, thank you. To elaborate based on my original post my thought was to try and desensitize the nervous system through a more passive approach in hopes it transfers into active movement.

          I was reading an article (Cutaneous afferent regulation of motor function - Panek et al 2014) that brought my attention to the skins role in aiding with how we adjust to our environment during locomotion. That made me think of how the skin moves throughout movement and actually provides this feedback, or how do the mechno-receptors in the skin become activated throughout swing phase in the gait cycle for example or when going to grasp an object to modify our position/force (maybe there's another thread on these topics?).

          I use to think of the body as a 1000 piece puzzle, but now I have no idea how big it is

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          • #20
            Originally posted by tldillman View Post

            I was reading an article (Cutaneous afferent regulation of motor function - Panek et al 2014) that brought my attention to the skins role in aiding with how we adjust to our environment during locomotion. That made me think of how the skin moves throughout movement and actually provides this feedback, or how do the mechno-receptors in the skin become activated throughout swing phase in the gait cycle for example or when going to grasp an object to modify our position/force (maybe there's another thread on these topics?).
            There is a paper called The proprioceptive senses: their roles in signaling body shape, body position and movement, and muscle force that is exactly about how proprioception from skin is a thing. Well, not from skin, but from its embedded neurology.

            I remember being entranced at how thick my own skin is when I was in San Diego in a women's restroom, drying my hands and forearms in one of those no-touch driers where you stick your hands in and hot air blows on them. The hot air blew my skin around like the sails on a boat. It would have blown right off had it not been so securely attached with skin ligaments.
            I was shocked actually, at how much rippling went on and how deep it went. It was sort of mesmerizing, like watching waves on the ocean. I even called Rajam over to watch.
            Diane
            www.dermoneuromodulation.com
            SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
            HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
            Neurotonics PT Teamblog
            Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
            Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
            @PainPhysiosCan
            WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
            @WCPTPTPN
            Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

            @dfjpt
            SomaSimple on Facebook
            @somasimple

            "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

            “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

            “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

            "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

            "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

            Comment


            • #21
              I once read that you should "rub hands vigorously beneath jet of air, then wipe hands on
              pants."

              Pretty funny.
              Barrett L. Dorko

              Comment


              • #22
                Tyler, if you're interested I have that paper you mentioned linked in here.. there are 72 pages of references posted now.

                You will find that one and others on page 22.

                LATERAL SKIN STRETCH, EXTEROCEPTION CONTRIBUTE TO PROPRIOCEPTION

                1. Edin, B.B., and Johansson, N., 1995, Skin strain patterns provide kinaesthetic information to the human central nervous system. J Physiology 487.1 243-251

                2. Lundblad, L.C., Olausson, H.W., Malmeström, C., and Wasling, H.B., 2010, Processing in prefrontal cortex underlies tactile direction discrimination: An fMRI study of a patient with a traumatic spinal cord lesion. Neurosci Lett. Oct 15;483(3):197-200.

                3. Proske, U., and Gandevia, S., 2009, The kinaesthetic senses. J Physiol 587.17 p. 4139–4146

                4. Panek, I. , Bui, T., Wright, A.T.B., and Brownstone, R.M., 2014, Cutaneous afferent regulation of motor function. Acta Neurobiol Exp. 74: 158–171

                5. Collins, D.F., Refshauge, K.M, Todd, G., and Gandevia, S.C., 2005, Cutaneous receptors contribute to kinesthesia at the index finger, elbow, and knee. J Neurophysiol. Sep;94(3):1699-706

                6. D. F. Collins, D.F., and Prochazka, A, 1996, Movement illusions evoked by ensemble cutaneous input from the dorsum of the human hand. Journal of Physiology, 496.3, pp.857-871

                7. Collins, D.F, Refshauge, K.M., and Gandevia, S.C., 2000, Sensory integration in the perception of movements at the human metacarpophalangeal joint. J Physiol. Dec 1; 529(Pt 2): 505–515.

                8. Brugger, P., Meier, R., 2015, A New Illusion at Your Elbow. Perception February vol. 44 no. 2 219-221

                9. Bark, K, Wheeler, J.W., Premakumar, S., Cutkosky, M. R., 2008, Comparison of Skin Stretch and Vibrotactile Stimulation for Feedback of Proprioceptive Information. Center for Design Research Department of Mechanical Engineering Stanford University. (FULL TEXT)

                10. Arnaud Foisy* and Zoï Kapoula; How Plantar Exteroceptive Efficiency Modulates Postural and Oculomotor Control: Inter-Individual Variability. Front. Hum. Neurosci., 13 May 2016 (FULL TEXT)

                11. Olausson H, Norrsell U; OBSERVATIONS ON HUMAN TACTILE DIRECTIONAL SENSIBILITY. Journal of Physiology (1993), 464, pp. 545-559 (full pdf)


                They aren't perfectly organized but I don't know what I would do without google docs.
                Diane
                www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                @PainPhysiosCan
                WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                @WCPTPTPN
                Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                @dfjpt
                SomaSimple on Facebook
                @somasimple

                "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                Comment

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