Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Entering Chaos

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • caro
    replied
    Indeed Barrett. I posted the talk and your essay to my FB wall.

    Hats off to Joe for making this possible.

    Leave a comment:


  • Randy Dixon
    replied
    Originally posted by Barrett Dorko View Post
    Simply that CPRs were invented to predict even further that which couldn't be predicted in the first place.

    The problems inherent to prediction in a chaotic system is what's being denied.
    I read a book once (no, that does not mean I've only read one book) which I think is called "Chaos", in it the author talks about weather prediction, and how even if we were to place 1-cubic. inch sensors in every cubic foot of land on air that would be 1727 cu. inches that we would not have any data on, and there is no computer on earth that could model even 1 mile of the data that is provided. In other words, complex systems are by the nature of their complexity, unpredictable. The more precise the prediction attempts to be, the less accurate it it must be. Humans are pretty complex.

    Leave a comment:


  • Barrett Dorko
    replied
    Carol Lynn,

    I wrote a comment on the blog this AM. Wonderful discussion, including the song lyric at the end and Joe's interpretation of the comment by Eric.

    Leave a comment:


  • caro
    replied
    This belongs here. Fantastic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Barrett Dorko
    replied
    I think it's a pipe dream because I've yet to actually work with a therapist willing to study here.

    Maybe there's already a split - and the chasm is in between. What we need, I guess, is a real incentive to cross it.

    So far, I can't think of one that might interest those on the other side.

    Leave a comment:


  • nickmPT
    replied
    I haven't even worked for a paycheck yet (not that that it is all about) and you are telling me my profession is going the way of the dodo.

    What do I and the other young therapists need to do (besides treating our patients on the premises of the latest neurosciences)? Petition the APTA? Perform in-services for our fellow colleagues? Let us come up with solutions.

    I understand the need for angst and venting, it can be very therapeutic. But let us channel it towards a productive form of action. Or is this all a pipe dream?

    Leave a comment:


  • nari
    replied
    I think it's a dying profession.
    Once upon a long time ago, what physiotherapists did with patients was unique. Nobody else came close.
    Now competition is fierce and persistent from fitness instructors, trainers, OTs, LMTs, kinesiologists, chiropractors, osteopaths....and others.

    I think all of these practitioners have every right to update, extend their curriculi and widen their horizons. Don't get me wrong. But here the perfect opportunity is wide open to us to get in on the pain horizon and run with it, leaving others behind to some extent and it is being largely ignored.

    If as a profession, we continue with the same old, same old... then I agree totally with Barrett.
    PT will not survive.

    Nari

    Leave a comment:


  • Barrett Dorko
    replied
    Nick,

    I don't think it will be replaced in my lifetime. Its transformation from what I knew it to be is already complete.

    Unless and until therapists have an incentive to know more and practice appropriately, well, I guess I'll always have something to bellyache write about.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evanthis Raftopoulos
    replied
    Somehow my first and last sentences seem to contradict, either that or I haven't sorted out my thoughts properly (not uncommon). I guess this is my left brain still trying to make sense of the chaos.

    Sincerely,

    My left brain

    Leave a comment:


  • Evanthis Raftopoulos
    replied
    I think we have to acknowledge that the patients' values and beliefs (deriving from the society and culture that they live in) regarding rehabilitation and pain can be strong predictors of expectations and therefore outcomes of specific interventions. If one expects massage, manipulation and strength training in PT (See here), then good luck with anything else (I guess you better be charismatic and convincing if trying something else). It seems to me that CPRs predict patient beliefs regarding interventions more than anything. I would like to know the patient expectations and past experiences with specific interventions prior delivering the intervention. CPR studies are distorted by patient and practitioner bias, therefore, useless in my opinion when applied in individuals with variable expectations and cultural/societal backgrounds than those in the studies.

    Leave a comment:


  • nickmPT
    replied
    Originally posted by Barrett Dorko View Post
    I think it's a dying profession. This is just one reason why.
    Tell me how you really feel.

    I assume you talk of PT in general. What would replace it? Something good, bad, or ugly?

    Leave a comment:


  • Barrett Dorko
    replied
    I think it's a dying profession. This is just one reason why.

    Leave a comment:


  • nickmPT
    replied
    Originally posted by Barrett Dorko View Post
    Simply that CPRs were invented to predict even further that which couldn't be predicted in the first place.

    The problems inherent to prediction in a chaotic system is what's being denied.
    True.

    It also seems that the CPR's purpose was a standardization of care of sorts. Using choreographed movements and specific manual techniques to treat different kinds of injuries/pathologies ala the way a physician would treat bacterial infections with antibiotics. Yet as you say treating the chaos that is pain, as I'm learning more about, is generally not as simple as applying the correct maneuver.

    It would seem that our profession would do well to learn more of how the talk therapies operate rather than imposing some sort of artificial standardization based upon movements and techniques.

    What do you think?

    Leave a comment:


  • Barrett Dorko
    replied
    Simply that CPRs were invented to predict even further that which couldn't be predicted in the first place.

    The problems inherent to prediction in a chaotic system is what's being denied.

    Leave a comment:


  • nickmPT
    replied
    Originally posted by Barrett Dorko View Post

    Really, weren't these a manifestation of denial?
    What do you mean?

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X