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  • Where to? II

    Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it.

    Ayn Rand
    It’s really hard to beat a good story, even if we know it couldn’t possibly be true. I just got another missive from the "fascial community”. (Those are “scare quotes” by the way. Be afraid, be very afraid)

    Restricted fascia is full of pockets. When the tissue starts to release, these pockets are opened up. When these pockets open, the sensations that were trapped in them are released. These sensations may be very mild and brief, or they may be extremely intense and last longer. The sensations can be just as intense as when the trauma first occurred.
    I gather from this that those who “believe” in the fascia actually think that sensation and memory are “things” that exist in some sort of discreet form. After all, they can be “trapped.” Kind of like Tinkerbell in that jar.

    Hey, I might be on to something here.
    Barrett L. Dorko

  • #2
    Restricted fascia is full of pockets. When the tissue starts to release, these pockets are opened up. When these pockets open, the sensations that were trapped in them are released. These sensations may be very mild and brief, or they may be extremely intense and last longer. The sensations can be just as intense as when the trauma first occurred.
    ...or maybe its simply a nociceptive pain induced by a nociceptive stimulus when the clinician digs their fingers into the skin??? The variability of mild vs. intense depends on how threatening this dig is???
    Joseph Brence, DPT, FAAOMPT, COMT, DAC
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein
    Blog: www.forwardthinkingpt.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Joe,

      The amount of threat perceived is an extremely important and remarkably variable factor - somehing those using heavy pressure seem not to understand.

      I really like the Tinkerbell analogy, especially since it just came to me as I drove yesterday. I'm sure my unconscious had been working on it for a while. Think of the audience's reaction to her "death" in the play.
      Last edited by Barrett Dorko; 02-09-2011, 02:43 PM.
      Barrett L. Dorko

      Comment


      • #4
        Agreed...
        Joseph Brence, DPT, FAAOMPT, COMT, DAC
        "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein
        Blog: www.forwardthinkingpt.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Dear Myofascial Therapist,

          Whenever you release my fascia, I feel like my pockets are "closing up."(Redirected scare quotes)

          Nick
          Nick Nordtvedt, PT, DPT, Cert MDT

          You will never succeed if you are not prepared to fail.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Barrett Dorko View Post
            It’s really hard to beat a good story, even if we know it couldn’t possibly be true. I just got another missive from the "fascial community”. (Those are “scare quotes” by the way. Be afraid, be very afraid)



            I gather from this that those who “believe” in the fascia actually think that sensation and memory are “things” that exist in some sort of discreet form. After all, they can be “trapped.” Kind of like Tinkerbell in that jar.

            Hey, I might be on to something here.
            Barrett,

            Where did that scary quote come from?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jackson View Post
              Dear Myofascial Therapist,

              Whenever you release my fascia, I feel like my pockets are "closing up."(Redirected scare quotes)

              Nick
              :clap2:

              Here's another:

              Dear myofascial therapist,

              Whenever you release my fascia, I feel like my pockets are "closing up." Now I'm concerned that some of them will close up too fast (.. like, before all the bad stuff can get out/be released). Then it might turn to cancer or something. I guess I would need acupuncture then. But I'm afraid of needles. So I think I should go back to see the doctor and see if my fascia can be removed. Then I'll feel safe again. Thanks for your help though - you taught me an AMAZING amount of stuff you learned at that third fascia conference you went to.

              Diane
              Diane
              www.dermoneuromodulation.com
              SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
              HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
              Neurotonics PT Teamblog
              Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
              Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
              @PainPhysiosCan
              WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
              @WCPTPTPN
              Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

              @dfjpt
              SomaSimple on Facebook
              @somasimple

              "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

              “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

              “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

              "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

              Comment


              • #8
                Barrett, your metaphor with Tinkerbell is an excellent one on so many levels, yes you are on to something.
                Kory Zimney, PT, DPT

                http://koryzimney.blogspot.com

                "Study principles not methods, a mind that can grasp principles will create its own methods." - Gill

                "All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them." - Galileo Galilei

                Comment


                • #9
                  Richard,

                  I am sent these things by sources that prefer to remain anonymous. This was written by someone very active and highly respected in the MFR community and it originates in ALL of the courses taught by a certain individual whom I simply cannot name.

                  I suspect you know why.
                  Barrett L. Dorko

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A quick search on fascia and memory yielded these articles. Old songs conjure up memories of events associated with the songs, but isn't that memory in the CNS? Do walled off energy cysts show on MRI? Cancer is old unresolved memory? Seems to me fear is being preyed upon here. PT has become PT Barnum.


                    http://www.massage-research.com/blog/?p=161

                    http://www.massagetoday.com/archives/2003/08/09.html

                    http://www.mindandbeyond.net/serarticles.asp

                    http://www.freedomfrombodymemory.com...mr_phenom.html

                    Deb

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Diane View Post
                      :clap2:

                      Here's another:

                      Dear myofascial therapist,

                      Whenever you release my fascia, I feel like my pockets are "closing up." Now I'm concerned that some of them will close up too fast (.. like, before all the bad stuff can get out/be released). Then it might turn to cancer or something. I guess I would need acupuncture then. But I'm afraid of needles. So I think I should go back to see the doctor and see if my fascia can be removed. Then I'll feel safe again. Thanks for your help though - you taught me an AMAZING amount of stuff you learned at that third fascia conference you went to.

                      Diane

                      Diane,

                      This is especially for you:

                      http://app1.unmc.edu/publicaffairs/t...cfm?match=2722

                      this one too!

                      http://articles.latimes.com/2001/apr/08/news/mn-48381

                      enjoy!
                      Last edited by Richard Finn; 02-09-2011, 07:33 PM. Reason: added second ref

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Richard Finn View Post


                        Wow!
                        I thought I was just making stuff up. :sad::sad::sad:

                        There seems to be something really deep in peoples' "self" modules, that expects to have to be punished, from the inside by pain or from the outside by someone inflicting it. :thumbs_do

                        By the way, I got the same amount of shoulder range back as this woman did, without having to travel anywhere except around inside my own head, and what I've learned about pain so far.
                        Diane
                        www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                        SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                        HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                        Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                        Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                        Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                        @PainPhysiosCan
                        WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                        @WCPTPTPN
                        Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                        @dfjpt
                        SomaSimple on Facebook
                        @somasimple

                        "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                        “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                        “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                        "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                        "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          He was here.

                          Dr. Nystrom called me many years ago. He wanted to develop a working relationship. He explained his technique. My reply was to ask how he handled the scar tissue that would be created by his procedure and the subsequent need for further surgery. He said he had done the surgery to his secretary and handed the phone to her. He did not want the conversation to go where I was heading!

                          The next week two of his "successful" patients came in to see me off of the street (no referral). Their pain had returned and they were going to schedule a second surgery. You can imagine my reply. Shortly afterword he moved away. He sat up shop elsewhere...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Wow, Richard, you hang out in some strange places to get this stuff. Or maybe I don't hang out in "normal" life nearly enough. Either way, I feel sorry for people who think they need to be opened up for "pain" problems, and very much dislike the delusion about opening people up for "pain" problems. Whether it be by scalpel, acupuncture needle, elbow or any other kind of instrument, blunt or sharp. The only implement necessary most of the time is Occam's Chainsaw and the only thing needing "opening" is stupid ideology.
                            Diane
                            www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                            SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                            HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                            Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                            Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                            Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                            @PainPhysiosCan
                            WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                            @WCPTPTPN
                            Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                            @dfjpt
                            SomaSimple on Facebook
                            @somasimple

                            "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                            “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                            “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                            "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                            "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dr. Nystrom is in Omaha, NE practicing at University of Nebraska Medical Center (UNMC). Omaha is 90 miles straight south on I-29 from where I live. About 5 years ago I turned down taking the physical therapy manager position for the UNMC hospital inpatient and outpatient areas. I can see I'm glad I did, not sure what I would do having to work with someone like that on a regular basis?
                              Kory Zimney, PT, DPT

                              http://koryzimney.blogspot.com

                              "Study principles not methods, a mind that can grasp principles will create its own methods." - Gill

                              "All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them." - Galileo Galilei

                              Comment

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