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  • #61
    Gil,

    I think you’re right. I also think that creativity and imagination are intimately linked. That was discussed at length here and I feel that helping people in pain is vitally dependent upon their educability. Perhaps there’s a line crossed in the midst of dementia that makes it nearly impossible to help them in the usual ways discussed here.

    So, we need imagination, creativity and movement. Perhaps most importantly our patients need a therapist present who understands these things from several different angles and on several different levels.

    Oh, and I need your email address in order to send you that stuff we discussed on the phone last week.
    Barrett L. Dorko

    Comment


    • #62
      Found a quote from that thread (thanks Barrett for the link), regarding pain, imagination and movement, and I think it clearly (in my mind) states how SC might help us access the imagination/creativity necessary to move out of the habit of not healing:

      From Diane in post #10:
      I think we get a little closer to the idea of pain here, by considering the relationship to it that core might have, that extended might have. There might be conflicting "images" of the same "pain," one that is nonconscious or core generated, and another that is conscious or extended generated.

      Movement: Where awareness goes, image-making will immediately follow.
      If one can shine a mental flashlight in on the relationship between core and extended consciousness in someone's brain, however briefly, and create a moment wherein that individual becomes aware of the possibility of differentiation between these two main modes of operation, a new relationship between the two, a new image, immediately springs into being, a movement image in this instance. A new image that is mutual to both core and extended, logically could go a long way toward decreasing a pain state based on an incongruency between the two, clashing images that bother the organism and will be trumped eternally by core mechanisms operating to maintain survival.
      Also seems to be a great explaination of where words might come from in poetry. Think the images, if powerful enough for conscious representation, are describable in words, and the associative and aware (?) mind is able to pattern them into some configuration known commonly as poetry. Perhaps poetry is simply making the image visible to the public mind...also a personal expression, just the way that the movements patients undertake w/SC make their options/expressions visible to the public mind of the therapist and the pt.

      I think one way to encourage more creativity/imagination in patients is through less cuing for the exact movements (as part of HEP, for example in Feldenkrais movement patterns) and to attend more to what the movement chosen feels like, etc. Also attempting to educate the pt on the importance of explorations of movement and responsiveness to pain is a good tactic. I am finding that pts seem to tap their own inner resources/creative instincts when they are given the gift of conscious/non-conscious exploration of movement and given the "permission" to continue to explore, and maybe that is enough?

      As far as the urge to be creative, I wonder if the urge is there underlying in the fact that they have pain in the first place (at least neurogenic-type pain). Also the fact that they move w/SC demonstrates that urge underlying as well perhaps. Is it enough to know the urge is there, the act of moving is creative if it's the right kind, and the pt's "creative/imaginative" processes, once tapped and encouraged, remain open and expressable/expressive once the process begins?

      I think it is correct to say that society tends not to recognize creativity as much as "talent," or to encourage the creative act. We do that with SC and our cues/instructions to pts. From there, I wonder if it is individual to the pt how creative/imaginative they allow themselves to be or are motivated to become, and we need to learn how to better assess for the individual expression and speak/teach to that? Any ideas?

      Steph
      Stephanie A. Mikoliczak, DPT
      sigpic
      And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. - Anaïs Nin

      Comment


      • #63
        In post #4 of this amazing thread begun by Cory in June 2006 he wrote:

        When you exclude consciousness (or better stated, prior to consciousness), the choice of action is based upon past experience and how the body responded to those decisions. The action chosen will be the one that will bring about the body response best suited to the task at hand, based on previous experience with similar situations.
        In the next post I said:

        Is there any indication from Damasio as to when this previously learned ideal reaction might have been learned? I couldn't find any, and if there isn't, wouldn't earliest childhood be the most fertile ground for such learning? Ideomotion as manifest in adults seems to be a return to this.
        In light of recently posted ideas here I might now say that play leads to the learning manifest as ideomotive or corrective movement later in life. It follows that play is related to creative activity, and that’s connected to healthy albeit largely countercultural movement when performed by adults. If the therapist can in some manner create a context in their presence that promotes play, well, pain relief is more likely to follow.

        I think. I'm almost sure.
        Barrett L. Dorko

        Comment


        • #64
          My wife has been converting some old VHS home video of our kids to DVD. It's mesmerizing to watch them frolic about at play when they were between about 3 and 6 years old- before they had much rational concern about what they were doing. Their movements were so spontaneous and whimsical.

          After watching them flit, twirl and kick about, I can understand why patients might feel a little self-conscious about engaging in such behavior- and why a therapist might question his professional "gravitas" trying to evoke such instinctive movement.

          It seems so much more serious to restore an arthrokinematic glide than to evoke a playful, ideomotive response.
          John Ware, PT
          Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
          "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
          “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
          be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

          Comment


          • #65
            It seems so much more serious to restore an arthrokinematic glide than to evoke a playful, ideomotive response.
            Yep. Also satisfies the need to have "control" over healing "your" patient, and the ability to say, exactly, what the therapist is "doing" to/for their patient.

            Also, yaaaawn...:teeth:
            Stephanie A. Mikoliczak, DPT
            sigpic
            And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. - Anaïs Nin

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by John W View Post
              It seems so much more serious to restore an arthrokinematic glide than to evoke a playful, ideomotive response.
              And it seems so much more measurable for those interested in measuring in order to appear more sciencey. So much more a noun than a verb.
              Diane
              www.dermoneuromodulation.com
              SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
              HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
              Neurotonics PT Teamblog
              Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
              Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
              @PainPhysiosCan
              WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
              @WCPTPTPN
              Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

              @dfjpt
              SomaSimple on Facebook
              @somasimple

              "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

              “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

              “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

              "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

              Comment


              • #67
                I especially like John's point. My brother Kevin once told me that he objects to being referred to as "childish" though "child-like" is perfectly acceptable.

                Over the years I've developed a demeanor that gives the appearance of thoughtful and experienced professionalism. I'm certain that this permits much more playfulness (and by that I don't mean raucous behavior) than if I were to appear as my colleagues commonly do.

                My behavior and speech have a purpose, and it is to advance the progress of the patient toward the various goals we have agreed upon and still feel are realistic. Unlike the therapist handling others as if they were some sort of combination lock they were trying to defeat - posing and posturing with self-importance and some imagined magical skill - I offhandedly enter their peripersonal space, allow them to enter mine and then attend to what's happening. It is not at all unlike the communion of play that Donaldson speaks of so well.

                In short, it helps to wear a tie while teaching and playing with others. After all, it worked well for Fred Rogers.
                Last edited by Barrett Dorko; 06-01-2010, 01:19 PM.
                Barrett L. Dorko

                Comment


                • #68
                  Great imagery Barrett!!! Excellent examples of how to professionally and seriously "play" and just what attention and direction/purpose is in this environment....and the link between provider/pt interpersonal connectiveness.....mutual bond and learning.....wow....great stuff....so complete, so consice, so right on and not missing an ounce of expressiveness.......you are my idol for writing for sure...... :thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up

                  Awe.....memories.....:angel: That song won't come out of my head too easily though....darn it....gotta love the shoe thing though!

                  I don't think I'm gonna let my gray show or start wearing a tie though.....

                  Steph
                  Stephanie A. Mikoliczak, DPT
                  sigpic
                  And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. - Anaïs Nin

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Good post today from Jonah Lehrer with insights into childhood creativity and the adulthood decline of that ability.
                    As the brain develops, the prefrontal cortex expands in density and volume. As a result, we're able to exhibit impulse control and focused attention. The unfortunate side-effect of this cortical growth is an increased ability to repress errant thoughts. While many of these thoughts deserve to be suppressed, it turns out that we also censor the imagination. We're so scared of saying the wrong thing that we end up saying nothing at all. One interesting line of evidence in support of this speculative theory is that jazz musicians engaged in improvisation selectively "de-activate" their dorsolateral prefrontal cortex. In other words, they inhibit their inhibitory brain areas, which allows them to create without worrying about what they're creating.
                    Eric Matheson, PT

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Yeah. They do drugs some.
                      Diane
                      www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                      SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                      HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                      Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                      Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                      Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                      @PainPhysiosCan
                      WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                      @WCPTPTPN
                      Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                      @dfjpt
                      SomaSimple on Facebook
                      @somasimple

                      "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                      “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                      “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                      "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                      "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        From the "correlation, not causation" angle it would also seem possible that the inhibitory changes seen in the brain are a result of plasticity brought about by a reduction in use of creativity brought about by the social contructs of what it is to become an adult.
                        Cory Blickenstaff, PT, OCS

                        Pain Science and Sensibility Podcast
                        Leaps and Bounds Blog
                        My youtube channel

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          This picture might be interesting in this thread. It depicts circuitry that the brain can use (taking advantage of the fact that there are ten times more descending fibers from cortex to thalamus) to downregulate or otherwise shape incoming/upgoing perceptual input, raw info from thalamic processing of visual, auditory and somatosensory input.

                          People are somewhat prone to messing up this downregulation/focus in themselves, with common "NMDA receptor antagonists" also known as "dissociative anesthetics." These were what were used to delineate the pathways described in the paper.
                          Last edited by Diane; 27-03-2010, 06:44 PM.
                          Diane
                          www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                          SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                          HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                          Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                          Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                          Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                          @PainPhysiosCan
                          WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                          @WCPTPTPN
                          Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                          @dfjpt
                          SomaSimple on Facebook
                          @somasimple

                          "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                          “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                          “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                          "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                          "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            I second Cory's comment.

                            I'd like to think that the regular discipline of writing keeps my brain plastic.
                            Barrett L. Dorko

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              The aging brain: Why getting older just might be awesome

                              The aging brain: Why getting older just might be awesome, from CNN.

                              "...younger people are more likely to connect with others from their own place of need. A 22-year-old may have an idea, and that idea may be quite brilliant and useful, but more than likely it's all tied up in how that young person feels.
                              "Because of their greater capacity to empathize, older people can have a better sense of the things that may charge up another person's brain and get them excited."
                              Older people are also highly capable when it comes to the "define" aspect of human-centered design -- that is, the unpacking and synthesizing of empathy findings into compelling needs and insights.
                              An aging brain can better tease out patterns and see the big picture, Small says.
                              Whereas younger people may have better short-term and get-to-the-point-quickly memory, older folks have had a greater variety of experiences and are better able to build a wider image out of a lot of different parts of memory. They can make more connections because they have more things that have happened to them."
                              Diane
                              www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                              SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                              HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                              Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                              Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                              Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                              @PainPhysiosCan
                              WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                              @WCPTPTPN
                              Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                              @dfjpt
                              SomaSimple on Facebook
                              @somasimple

                              "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                              “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                              “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                              "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                              Comment

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