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  • #31
    movement and pain-some thoughts

    Thanks everyone for being so welcoming! As you may know, I'm not a PT, yet I venture to both work with and provide theoretical explanations about issues that are traditionally dealt with in the medical/PT model. the theoretical and practical applications of my work live in the universe of trying to understand how the brain organizes action and how to bring changes to the ways in which we move, think and feel, and thus change our experience - when needed.

    I have been very lucky to have Dr Michael Merzenich take interest in my work, read my book, and become a big supporter and to have had numerous conversations with him on the topic since. Yesterday I had the honor and privilige to give a presentation at his company - Posit Science. As you probably know, Merzenich and his team of scientits research brain plasticity and look for practical applications of the science. It was lots of fun to speak to people who are experts on brain plasticity and to present to them new ways to think about it and organize it for daily and therapeutic use.

    The reason I mention all this, aside from my desire to reassure those of you who are skeptical about the validity of my work and claims, is to quickly move the conversation about pain to the conversation about changing brain patterns. In my book I do not discuss pain and it's treatment much, that is not the topic of the book. However the principles mentioned in the book are the same that i would apply to try and help a client rid themselves of pain. When I work with anyone suffering from pain i hold the following assumtions:
    1. That is is possible for that person to be pain free
    2. That somehow, in some way, how that person is organizing their movements, and thinking necessitates that pain. And that organizations is automatic and unintentional.
    3. Through movement with attention and the other nine essentials I can help that person flood their brain with new information (experiences) that the brain will then utilize to create new patterns and possibilities.
    4. I can guide the process, based on my knowledge of movement, its organization, and the nine essentials, in such a way that willl speed up the process of discovery and positive change on the client's part.
    5. That the brain, any brain, is capable of incredibly fast and profound changes when given the conditions and information that it needs.
    6. that through the nine essentials we can be deliberate and systematic about creating a process of change that will eliminate the pain.

    I know this is general, but hope it give something of value.


    I would like to comment about what someone in the thread wrote about my placing my work with children on the website as a 'cheap' way to try and rope people in, so to speak. i am so sorry that you see it this way. My greatest passion is my work with children and specifically - children with special needs -and I would like for EVERYONE to know what is possible for these children and what is possible for those of us who try to help them. I would like the whole world to know about it so that many of the practices used with these children will change in order to access much more of the brain power of these kids in an effective and intentional way. There is no need to subject these kids to much of the pain that they endure in therapy, and lessen the pain they experience due to their condition - both physical and emotional -and find more ways for them to become empowered and of course have these kids experience successful change and healing. I know that every PT and OT working with kids (and adults) has these goals and I would love for every one to have access to the pracitcal applications of the currently undrestood priciples of brain plasticity iand benefi from the magnificent quantum leap.it offers.

    I am going on the road for my book tour next week for 3 weeks. I don't know how much I will be able to be active with this thread. I will ask my colleague, Dr Neil Sharp, to make sure to respond to any comments or questions that might arise.
    Best, Anat

    Comment


    • #32
      a thought

      Wondering how to stay current in my and my colleagues' communication with the Soma/Barrett community, I realized that you could post questions and comments also directly on our blog on Anat Baniel Method website, or perhaps there is a way to create a link between the two? I'm not very knowleagable about his stuff.
      Anat

      Comment


      • #33
        Mr. Dorko is currently indisposed and says he will respond "once my head stops pounding."

        In the meantime, he wants Anat to know how much he appreciates her thoughtful and, admittedly, unexpected posting. She now joins a very small group of authors invited here to participate in a thread that might prove contentious. Population: 1 (unless you count Shacklock, but Barrett thinks he's special case).

        Signed,
        Chief of trauma, Cuyahoga Falls General Hospital
        Barrett L. Dorko

        Comment


        • #34
          Dear Ms. Baniel,

          I would like to apologize to you for expressing my cynicism concerning therapy for children. There is indeed a vacuum when it comes to efficacious treatments in the pediatric neurological community. I hope this is a beginning of shaping the bold future of pain therapy. It would be my greatest wish that you do get your message to the world.

          My experience as I near time to enter my chosen profession of massage therapy is disillusionment. The mashing of muscles and everything musculoskeletal has been difficult to reconcile with what I have learned here at SomaSimple. My own physical revulsion to being injured by ill handling of my nervous system makes me want gentle and intelligent based treatment methods. My profession refuses to see the skin as the brain exposed or the door way to the neurological system that it is, and I fear it will be a long time until massage turns away from the popular trigger point, myofascial, joint and muscle play methods that it cherishes so highly. The mention of Feldenkrais movement gets brushed off with "you don't learn that here." If the public is exposed to and learns enough to discern scientific ideas of movement and neural plasticity from musculoskeletal, perhaps they will then demand a change of practice from their manual therapy providers.

          Thank you for coming to the thread.
          Karen

          Comment


          • #35
            Hi anat,
            Thanks again for coming to our board to discuss your book.
            As you may know, I'm not a PT, yet I venture to both work with and provide theoretical explanations about issues that are traditionally dealt with in the medical/PT model.
            And so you should, and have written something these issues that we all should be reading. (I don't know when or why something which everyone has the right to do, and to think about and anyone has a right to write a book about, something like movement, became medicalized... )

            I would venture to say that PT has yet to elucidate a very good model of movement (for/of/by the whole profession), that isn't crowded with useless, outdated, irrelevant concepts. We are trying on this board, but the sad truth is that not very many in our profession are up to speed on the nervous system itself to get what the fuss is all about. Anyone who DOES get what the fuss is about (i.e., how important the ongoing involvement and oversight and neuroplasticity of the brain is in the whole event of every/any kind of movement production, of every sort), therapist or not, is welcome to be part of this board. I'd say, even though the PT model isn't very up to speed yet, the medical model of movement is still further behind.

            the theoretical and practical applications of my work live in the universe of trying to understand how the brain organizes action and how to bring changes to the ways in which we move, think and feel, and thus change our experience - when needed.
            :thumbs_up

            I have been very lucky to have Dr Michael Merzenich take interest in my work, read my book, and become a big supporter and to have had numerous conversations with him on the topic since. Yesterday I had the honor and privilige to give a presentation at his company - Posit Science. As you probably know, Merzenich and his team of scientits research brain plasticity and look for practical applications of the science. It was lots of fun to speak to people who are experts on brain plasticity and to present to them new ways to think about it and organize it for daily and therapeutic use.
            :thumbs_up

            The reason I mention all this, aside from my desire to reassure those of you who are skeptical about the validity of my work and claims, is to quickly move the conversation about pain to the conversation about changing brain patterns. In my book I do not discuss pain and it's treatment much, that is not the topic of the book. However the principles mentioned in the book are the same that i would apply to try and help a client rid themselves of pain. ....

            I know this is general, but hope it give something of value.
            It is. The only way to move out of pain is to move out of pain.

            If we sound on this board like we are focused on pain, it's because so much of our profession doesn't yet have enough information about pain in order to understand how to ignore it properly.

            Now, to your assumptions:
            When I work with anyone suffering from pain i hold the following assumtions:
            1. That is is possible for that person to be pain free
            For ordinary mechanically affect-able pain, yes, I agree. For neuropathic pain, or pain resulting from disease process, not so much.

            2. That somehow, in some way, how that person is organizing their movements, and thinking necessitates that pain. And that organizations is automatic and unintentional.
            We could quibble over some of this, but on the whole I accept it - again, for ordinary mechanical pain.

            3. Through movement with attention and the other nine essentials I can help that person flood their brain with new information (experiences) that the brain will then utilize to create new patterns and possibilities.
            Would you care to list your "9 essentials" here?

            4. I can guide the process, based on my knowledge of movement, its organization, and the nine essentials, in such a way that willl speed up the process of discovery and positive change on the client's part.
            I'm sure you can. :angel::thumbs_up

            5. That the brain, any brain, is capable of incredibly fast and profound changes when given the conditions and information that it needs.
            Processing speed of about 270 mph should be enough to get the job done. It takes about 3 days for receptors to be replaced, and after that, signalling should be a lot more "normal."

            6. that through the nine essentials we can be deliberate and systematic about creating a process of change that will eliminate the pain.
            Again, would love to see these.


            My greatest passion is my work with children and specifically - children with special needs -and I would like for EVERYONE to know what is possible for these children and what is possible for those of us who try to help them. I would like the whole world to know about it so that many of the practices used with these children will change in order to access much more of the brain power of these kids in an effective and intentional way. There is no need to subject these kids to much of the pain that they endure in therapy, and lessen the pain they experience due to their condition - both physical and emotional -and find more ways for them to become empowered and of course have these kids experience successful change and healing. I know that every PT and OT working with kids (and adults) has these goals and I would love for every one to have access to the pracitcal applications of the currently undrestood priciples of brain plasticity iand benefi from the magnificent quantum leap.it offers.
            I sense how passionate you are. It's wonderful.
            I am willing to accept use of the term "magnificent quantum leap" as having been a metaphoric statement. It's a bit of an unfortunate choice of metaphor, here, however, in that part of what we do here at SomaSimple is deconstruct pseudoscience, a lot of which does not see such terms AS metaphor, but instead adopts them as explanation, as a way of avoiding having to do actual science. (I'm not saying you are like they are - I'm sure you were using the term only as metaphor, unlike pseudoscience proponents.)

            I am going on the road for my book tour next week for 3 weeks. I don't know how much I will be able to be active with this thread. I will ask my colleague, Dr Neil Sharp, to make sure to respond to any comments or questions that might arise.
            Best, Anat
            I wish you every success.

            Wondering how to stay current in my and my colleagues' communication with the Soma/Barrett community, I realized that you could post questions and comments also directly on our blog on Anat Baniel Method website, or perhaps there is a way to create a link between the two? I'm not very knowleagable about his stuff.
            Anat
            A link to your website would be a good idea.
            Here is the website: http://www.anatbanielmethod.com/

            Here is the blog: http://anatbanielmethod.wordpress.com/

            Here is "Michael Merzenich in conversation with Anat Baniel" on youtube:
            [YT]BHxMjkuumEE[/YT]
            Last edited by Diane; 24-05-2009, 05:18 PM.
            Diane
            www.dermoneuromodulation.com
            SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
            HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
            Neurotonics PT Teamblog
            Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
            Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
            @PainPhysiosCan
            WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
            @WCPTPTPN
            Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

            @dfjpt
            SomaSimple on Facebook
            @somasimple

            "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

            “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

            “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

            "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

            "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

            Comment


            • #36
              Anat,

              As Diane makes clear (to me anyway), if there’s a flaw in your logic it is in the absence of a current understanding of pain’s origins. Connecting these to movement can often be a challenge and is not always possible. I can’t help but wonder what Michael Merzenich understands about this and would love to hear. Perhaps Neil Sharp can help us.

              I also wonder about your method’s relation to ideomotion (described in this interview and elsewhere here and here). I recall Feldenkrais suggesting that we manually “take over” the work of the muscles we find are already trying to do something. (For those who don’t know, he was describing his handling, also known as functional integration) Are you doing that as well? Can you see its relation to Simple Contact?

              There is a difference between giving the brain an opportunity to learn something new and allowing it to reveal what it already knows. I tend to focus on the latter and wonder if you only focus on the former.
              Barrett L. Dorko

              Comment


              • #37
                There is a difference between giving the brain an opportunity to learn something new and allowing it to reveal what it already knows.
                This is the crux of the matter, in my view. The pervasive lack of respect for the nervous system runs very deep in medicine, rehabilitation and even training/exercise programs. We often don't seem to appreciate what is already there and waiting to be expressed. We don't seem to fully acknowledge the propensity of human beings to layer on defenses that serve to repress their nature, individuality and instincts.

                PTs tend to take a circuitous route around this repressed movement in a variety of coercive and frankly ignorant ways that, if they're lucky, will come back to resolving movement.

                Often, they are not so fortunate.

                So I think it's very important, Anat, that you address this question. Diane's clarification of the origins of pain provides a well-supported, fundamental physiological distinction that, without your acceptance as a premise for any subsequent discussion, may prevent constructive discourse of your ideas and method.

                Could it be that what is being "newly learned" is actually a process of un-learning defenses that produce a mal-adaptive nervous system state?

                I'm trying to avoid being too curt, as I am as astonished as anyone else here that you're willing to come and discuss your book with us. But, our time with you is limited, so I'd like to cut to the chase and gain a deeper understanding of your ideas in a timely way.:angel:

                Thank you again for your indulgence.
                John Ware, PT
                Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists
                "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson
                “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot
                be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

                Comment


                • #38
                  John,

                  I agree that this is an extremely important and potentially divisive issue. Divisive in the sense that the use of ideomotion, indeed, even the knowledge that it exists, may be too much for anyone already satisfied with what they're doing. Once a therapist invests a certain amount of time using their hands in a manner that becomes second nature they typically have a great deal of difficulty changing that. For some reason, this was never the case with me. I think it's because I'm a juggler. No kidding.

                  As it happens, I was once quite friendly with Bruce Holmes, now a singer/songwriter and formerly a novelist. Bruce and I connected back in the 80s and met a few times. He had been one of the few to complete Feldenkrais' only complete training here in the states prior to his passing. He told me, "This is what Moshe was doing" and I presume he would know. You'll see his lessons based on Feldenkrais' work are available on his web site, linked above. I'd recommend them.
                  Last edited by Barrett Dorko; 26-05-2009, 01:24 AM.
                  Barrett L. Dorko

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I was looking for something light to take on the plane tomorrow to Calgary to read, and found a tiny little book with only 100 pages. It's called The Mindful Brain, and I see it's by Gerald Edleman and Vernon Mountcastle. It's light but won't be "light", if you get my meaning.

                    I'm sure I bought it in a Vernon Mouncastle moment - I bought up several by him, after becoming entranced by Buszaki, and Buszaki's refernces to his work. I haven't read this one yet, but that will change soon.

                    I decided to tell this little story on this thread, because of the earlier discussion re: Edelman.
                    Diane
                    www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                    SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                    HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                    Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                    Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                    Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                    @PainPhysiosCan
                    WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                    @WCPTPTPN
                    Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                    @dfjpt
                    SomaSimple on Facebook
                    @somasimple

                    "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                    “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                    “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                    "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                    "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Anat's 9 Essentials

                      Each of Nine Essentials, when applied, immediately begins waking up the brain and upgrading it to create new connections and patterns that open up for us new solutions and possibilities. We become creative, freer in mind, body and spirit, and we are infused with vitality and energy. The Essentials are easy to grasp, and at times counter intuitive.

                      The first Essential is Movement with Attention: Movement is life, movement is necessary for all of life’s processes. Movement organizes the brain, it is the language of the brain. However, movement alone is not enough. Attention to the movement and to what we feel and think while we move is what gets the brain to grow and create the new and the better for us. Brain research confirms this. There are infinite opportunities to move with attention every moment of every day. And we have the opportunity to introduce movement with attention to our exercise regimes if we want to improve how we move and be vital. It is important to note that thought and emotion are also movement, and adding attention to those movements helps us become creative and energizes us.
                      The second Essential is Turning On the Learning Switch: I have observed working with people that their brains are either ‘on’ or ‘off’ in regards to learning. And the more we turn the learning switch on, the more vital and energized we become. Brain research now shows on a bio-chemical level that we can train our brains to be learning brains. Most adults coast on what they have learned way back as children and their brain is mostly doing over and over again the same old repertoire. Expect to learn, look to become a learner, go beyond your comfort zone in every aspect of your life. It needn’t be extreme; on the contrary, small challenges work a whole lot better.
                      The third Essential is Subtlety. I love this essential, it is so simple, yet so powerful. It simply means reduce the force with which you do whatever it is that you do – physically, emotionally, mentally, or spiritually. When you do a Yoga pose, or play golf and experience a limitation, rather than try harder do the exact opposite – reduce the force with which you do the movement, and then reduce it some more and you’ll be amazed. If you are in an argument with your child, spouse, friend, or co worker, reduce the intensity of your communication and you’ll be surprised with the transformations that begin to happen. When you reduce the force, your brain can perceive finer differences, and finer subtleties and that creates new information it can work with and the new is created. You become more intelligent and a better problem solver.
                      The fourth Essential is Variation: You can think of variation as intentional ‘mistakes’. Rather than trying to do things the ‘right way’, do them in a variety of ways, be wrong on purpose – you will flood your brain with valuable information, wake it up to become the inventor and problem solver you would like it to be, rather than running the same cycles over and over again. With it you will become more alive and vibrant.
                      The fifth Essential is Slow: Slow gets the brains attention. Fast we can only do what we already know. Anytime you want to improve, invent, and get past limitation - SLOW DOWN! That is the brilliant’s person way. Rushing through actions, unless you are already exquisite at what you do, you confine yourself to your current level of performance. Slow allows for the brain to notice what it is feeling and doing so it can adjust, invent and change. And getting better at what you do is exhilarating!
                      The Sixth Essential is Enthusiasm: People usually think of enthusiasm as a reaction to something great that is happening outside of us. And that can certainly be the case. However, Enthusiasm is an intentional action that infuses everything with energy. Whatever you do or feel that you would want more of, any ‘small’ change – when you bring Enthusiasm to it tells the brain that what is going on is important and it deepens the connections. This accelerates desired changes and learning and gets the miracles coming faster and faster. Think how dull and lacking of vitality it is when someone is ho hum about life. When only the ‘big’ things are deemed deserving of our enthusiasm.
                      The seventh Essential is Flexible Goals: Goals are important. They help give our lives purpose and direction. But people, too often, get very rigid about the path to achieving their goals, and the necessity to get to the goal as quickly as possible, no matter the unintended consequences. Often, even when the goal is accomplished, it can cost us our health, wellbeing, joy and vitality. When we approach our goals in a flexible way, we let everything in us and around us feed the brain with information, we allow for the unexpected and the miraculous. We are free to modify our goals, and that immense richness of information to the brain makes it much more likely that we will succeed at achieving our goal and at the same time be vital and energized.
                      The eighth Essential is Imagination and Dreams: Albert Einstein said that imagination is the preview to life’s upcoming attractions, and he also said that imagination is more important than knowledge. Our dreams/visions guide us from our futures. Imagination and dreams are the ultimate manifestation of the creative powers of the human brain. When we practice imagination and dreaming we elevate ourselves up from the compulsive and automatic into a world of limitless possibilities. We tap into an endless resource of energy and vitality.
                      The Ninth Essential is Awareness: The successful human life is like an arch that goes up till we die. From childhood to adulthood the healthy brain is moving in one direction – from the simple and incomplete to the fuller and more complex. There is a word in Hebrew, Shichlul, which means ‘improvement through increased refinement and complexity’. It also means ‘crowning beauty’. Awareness is a unique human quality that is required for self knowledge, for true knowledge of the world around us and is required for the more and more refined and complex differentiation of our brain. The brain that keeps differentiating and growing more refined and complex patterns and connections is a brain that can lead us to live a life of ‘crowning beauty’ full of wisdom and vitality.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Hi Clairish, welcome to somasimple and thank you for posting these.
                        Diane
                        www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                        SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                        HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                        Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                        Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                        Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                        @PainPhysiosCan
                        WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                        @WCPTPTPN
                        Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                        @dfjpt
                        SomaSimple on Facebook
                        @somasimple

                        "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                        “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                        “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                        "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                        "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Just wanted to let you know that I will be attending Anat's workshop tomorrow in New York city. I am excited to get a first hand experience of the work she is doing. I will report back to the group how it goes. If anyone has anything specific you would like me to ask her let me know.

                          CHad

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Looking forward to hearing your report, Chad. Ask her to stop by and say a few words in response to the issues raised in this thread.
                            Cory Blickenstaff, PT, OCS

                            Pain Science and Sensibility Podcast
                            Leaps and Bounds Blog
                            My youtube channel

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Anat Baniel Workshop

                              Just wanted to let everyone know what the workshop that I attended Saturday was like. I have never attended any type of workshop like this previously, but from what I have read about Feldenkrais and have seen in various videos it seems to be very much in line with his way of teaching movement. She emphasized the importance of the nervous system in everything that we do and how we move. She spoke of the work of Michael Merzenich on neuroplasticity and even hinted that they may team up in the future to do a study on her method and neuroplasticity.

                              The qualities of movement that she focused on that they should be slow, minimize effort, focus attention and awareness on the movement, and allowing your abdominals to be relaxed. This was a focus of Barrett's course that I attended as well and have followed since. As a therapist who used to use that stabilizer blood pressure cuff to monitor transverse abdominal contraction I realize how that goes against natural movement. She explained how the abdominals need to relax in order for the lumbar extensors to work and allow the spine and pelvis to tilt and extend. It amazes me how are bodies get so grooved in patterns of movement that we loose so much freedom to move in many ways. This would especially hold true to those with persistant pain.

                              One anectotal story she spoke of was her father who had a leg fracture and was casted for several weeks, she had him do exercises on the unaffected side and imagine the movements on the uninvolved side. When the cast was removed he had no atrophy! She said that there was research that showed muscle atrophy occurs immediately after injury and last for 2-3 days after then stops. The remaining changes that occur are in the central nervous system, Does anyone know of such research??
                              She also mocked traditional PT a little. About how you would usually rehab a knee surgery with an ankle weight and move the leg mindlessly up and down, or how a therapist will move an extremity ect. ect. I guess unfortunately in many cases she is probably right.

                              Overall the type of movement strategies she incorporates I would she as very helpful in patient with persistant pain. Her focus on how the brain gets stuck in patterns of movement that are efficient but do not bring variety. While performing the movements myself I can imagine alot of neural mobilization sliding and gliding occuring along with novel input to the brain to help downreagulate the nervous system overall. This combination along with pain neurophysiology education and light tactile input such as simple contact and dermoneuromodulation sould be a great way to help patients with pain.

                              I know that is not everything but those are my initial thoughts so far.

                              Chad

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Nice report Chad. I took Barrett's advise, and listened to Holmes webcast on this. I agree, thought it was very active with gentle active ROM stuff. I also had increased ROM doing Holmes experiment on the webcast. Just goes to show a lot of our ROM restrictions are due to nerves restrictions, me thinks?

                                Comment

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