Forum Moderators' Current Consensus on Pain

[Luke Rickards]

Frederic,

Yes, it is possible to produce permanent changes in connective tissue with large and prolonged forces. I can't imagine the number and frequency of manual therapy sessions it would take to give a patient the flexibility of a ballet dancer or yoga master.

Standard applications of stretching cannot produce such change.

[Frédéric]

Why the teaching and mentality asn't changed yet ?

Some very well knowned IFOMT and CAMT teachers would fermly disagree with you Luke

Altought I think I am more on the skeptic side (your side), I am still wondering why there asn't been a shift in thinking in manual therapy world.

I don't think it's money driven, as most of the PT I discuss this issue with are very convinced they actually changed the flexibility of a given tissu. I can only think it's because it is too highly deceiving and very prone to drive therapists to depression... or sort of.

It kind of takes some of the meaning you are/were giving to your work away from you. And to a subcouncious level, many PT are not ready to accept that.

Although I begin to realize/admit it myself, (doubt always was in the back of my mind though) I still find it a bit disstabilizing.

Fred

[Luke Rickards]

Both static stretching and ballistic stretching increase range of motion, most likely as a result of enhanced stretch tolerance rather than changes in muscle elasticity. (LaRoche,2006)

The constancy of the muscle resting tension suggests that merely the subjects' tolerance to higher stretching strain brings about the enlargement of ROM after short-term stretching exercises. (Weimann,1997)

Long term stretching increases joint range of motion as a result of elevated stretch tolerance rather than a viscoelastic accomodation.] [ The effectiveness of different stretching techniques is attributed to a change in stretch tolerance rather than passive properties." (Magnusson, 1998)

[Frédéric]

Did it last ?

Luke,

In those studies, was the outcome mesure taken only after the treatment, or was it also taken at a later time, say 2-3 weeks later ?

[Nick]

How are we to explain how gymnasts (an exemple) became so flexible (both muscular-ligament-and other connective tissu) ?

Genetics and youth.

[Frédéric]

part of the answer

Genetics and youth.

It certainly acounts for part of the reason but I think it is not enough by itself

[Mary C]

News reports about Nadia Comaneche (?) a few years after her Olympic gold medals said she had advanced, painful OA of the lumbar spine.

Add abuse to genetics and youth.

[Luke Rickards]

The wording of points #8 and #10 have been altered following comment from Steven George.

[Mary C]

Now I need the 10 points translated into French.

[Jon Newman]

Thanks Luke.

[Luke Rickards]

Jon,

Thank you for being the primary problem solver for these changes.

[bernard]

Now I need the 10 points translated into French.

http://www.somasimple.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4952

[ginger]

I have posted a copy of the ten points on pain to RE. This goes to the heart of many of the recent discussions there and is brilliant. I can't recall having seen it here in 2008, but wish I had. Great work.

[regnalt deux]

3. A pain experience may be induced or amplified by both actual and potential threats.

8. The corrective physiological mechanisms responsible for resolution are inherent. A therapist need only provide an appropriate environment for their expression.

3. A pain experience may be induced or amplified by the perception of actual and/or potential threats.

8. The corrective neurophysiological mechanisms responsible for resolution are inherent. A therapist need only provide an appropriate environment for their expression.

...or not

[Jon Newman]

3. A pain experience may be induced or amplified by the perception of actual and/or potential threats.

8. The corrective neurophysiological mechanisms responsible for resolution are inherent. A therapist need only provide an appropriate environment for their expression.

...or not

It will be up to the current moderators to modify the Forum Moderators' Current Consensus on Pain. Perhaps it should the Current Forum Moderators' Current Consensus on Pain. But I'll add my thoughts on your thoughts.

As it pertains to number 3, I don't think an actual threat needs to be perceived, only sensed.

Number 8 is interesting. Ultimately, the output of the nervous system must change if pain is to resolve. This will, I think, involve a change in active/inactive neural networks and the neural cells from which they are made. Whether this can happen in the absence of non-neural physiological processes is unlikely I think.

What do others think?