This Is Why

[BB]

Ah, that's right. It was lasers not e-stim. Thanks for the correction Jason. I'll forever remember the time a laser salesman presented to our clinic.

My two questions were: Is it too much to ask to get some freakin sharks with lasers strapped to their heads? (from austin powers)

What is the difference between your laser and the one across the street that is used to scan groceries? Can't I just send my patients who want laser over there?

Neither got the laughs I thought they deserved.

[Barrett Dorko]

It would be nice if we could influence the Pain group. I was briefly a member but found myself literally repulsed by the leadership.

The bottom line was this: No critical thinking allowed.

Maybe times have changed. I'm going to the Sections Meeting in February in Nashville and will check out their agenda beforehand.

Cory,

I can relate to the lack of deserved laughter. For what it's worth, I think what you said was pretty funny.

[Diane]

How about starting up an outside group? One that is strictly about the pain science/neuroscience? One like querencia? Heck, call it the American PT Querencia Pain Sciences Group. Querencia sounds like "Care"-encia. That should be enough to keep the ortho types away - ortho repellent tactic.

[Jon Newman]

The American Pain Society has a number of special interest groups that may be of interest to people. Knowing that some might not be in favor of the term "rehabilitation" I'll take a chance to point to this as a possibility (note the Ohio connection)

http://www.ampainsoc.org/member/sigs...nrehab-sig.htm

There are also other groups that are relevant but not exactly what people may be interested in. Perhaps there would be some interest in developing a "pain and movement" SIG or some such thing.

[gerry]

I sent a message to the editor as well.

I've always enjoyed your description of Berta Bobath's treatment. I've practiced in pediatrics my entire carreer, and was "NDT certified" as soon as I qualified. I never got to see the Bobaths, but when visiting London, I went by the facility where they spent some time. I have been fortunate enough to see another mentor "dance" with their clients, although could not say it was as fluid as Berta Bobath. They certainly would not claim they were.

I will look for you in Nashville, Barrett.

[Donald Tepper]

Article on Web-Based Bulletin Boards in PT Magazine

Hello, Jon, Cory, Jason, Gerry, et al.:

I've received your e-mails suggesting an article on online discussion forums to appear in a future issue of PT Magazine. First, sorry if it appears I've been unresponsive (as suggested by one or more posts), but I received Gerry's e-mail at 5:01 pm today...Jason's at 12:42 am today, Cory's at 11:48 am yesterday, and Jon's (the winner!) at 7:57 pm on Saturday.

A few random thoughts:

First of all, like most magazines, we put together an editorial calendar for an entire year. We put together the 2008 calendar, based on suggestions we'd received up to mid-2007, in July and August, 2007. It's got to be done that far in advance to prepare the editorial calendar and distribute it to ad agencies and media buyers by mid-September, when they make their initial purchasing decisions for the following year. What that means is that, unless there's a compelling reason, it's very difficult at this point to add another article to our current year's calendar.

Second, we've examined the possibility of doing an article somewhat like you proposed, but the issue was raised that, while material posted on discussion boards may be accurate and relevant, some material also is off-base, incorrect, or incomplete. The freedom of posting on such boards is one of the that technology's/service's strengths, but also one of its weaknesses. The same debate/discussion is going on in other areas of communication and journalism--unscreened so-called "instant" journalism, such as blogs, or videocameras built into cell phones. So there's a concern about whether, without some parameters, discussion boards represent the "best evidence."

Having said all that, there may be several opportunities to include online discussion and bulletin boards in articles we're already planning. Specifically, we have a story planned for May on "New Communications Technology: Podcasting, Web Sites, and More."

And, maybe a bit off topic, we have an article planned for June on "Health Care Consumerism." One of the items I hope is addressed there is consumers become more proactive--checking out not just consumer-oriented Web sites such as WebMD, but others as well in their attempts to become more informed and better educated. We'll probably address Web discussion boards in that article, too.

One topic we don't have planned for 2008 (so it'll be proposed for 2009) deals with social networking and business networking online (FaceBook, LinkedIn, etc.) One of the e-mails I received from this board referred to "virtual communities" which could also include the various groups on sites like Ask.com, as well as on illness- or disease-specific Web sites.

So, that's where we stand at the moment on coverage of Web-based discussion boards and related issues. If you have any additional thoughts or suggests, please let me know.

Thanks.

[BB]

Donald,

Thank you very much for your reply and consideration and for putting out a quality magazine.

I think anybody going to a discussion board looking for evidence needs to be going to the literature itself although we do have many links to pertinent literature here. What people will find here and at other places like it is discussion of what that evidence may mean in the clinic. I also find the in and outs of the discussions to have a positive effect on critical thinking. You're not being told what is what, but thinking through and arguing for or against application of the evidence in a way that must be justified and defended. I think you'll find the standard posters are held to here is not one of a tea party where any and all ideas are accepted at face value, but must be defended to make sense in terms of what is and is not supported.

Thanks again. I think you're ideas for the planned articles are good ones. Let us know if we may be of assistance.

[Jon Newman]

Hello Donald,

I have to admit that I'm pleasantly surprised you chimed in here at all. Not because I know anything about you but rather due to the general hesitancy of anyone in the public eye (using their actual name) chiming in on these boards. You deserve credit for that.

I appreciate your first point about the constraints you are under regarding timing and hope you'll consider such an article in the future.

On your second point,

Second, we've examined the possibility of doing an article somewhat like you proposed, but the issue was raised that, while material posted on discussion boards may be accurate and relevant, some material also is off-base, incorrect, or incomplete. The freedom of posting on such boards is one of the that technology's/service's strengths, but also one of its weaknesses. The same debate/discussion is going on in other areas of communication and journalism--unscreened so-called "instant" journalism, such as blogs, or videocameras built into cell phones. So there's a concern about whether, without some parameters, discussion boards represent the "best evidence."

I hope no one here (or any blog) has the arrogance to make the claim of being the ultimate authority and possessor of the "best evidence" and any article you may run would be prudent to highlight that point. On the flip side, trying to sort the wheat from the chaff on various discussion boards offers critical thinking opportunities relevant to the profession that are not available (to me) in any other format.

Thanks for responding.


P.S. I see Cory got his post off before I did and noted the opportunity to exercise critical thinking skills. These skills simply take practice. I like to think I'm better at using those skills now than I was last year.

[Jon Newman]

I'd like to add that I think I'm also better a making mistakes but the pluses outweigh the minuses. I think.

[Barrett Dorko]

As I said in post #8, "I can't help but think that numbers of letters are the only thing that will impress the editor."

This seems to be the case.

I've been promoting the Internet and sites like this for years to thousands of therapists to little effect. A glance at the member list reveals that that the day people register is typically the last day they visit as well. What I think of that much effort has been discussed in many other threads, but I don't have the impression that therapists mistrust what they're being told and thus leave.

I look forward to the articles Mr. Tepper has mentioned, but feel the fundamental problem will remain - indifference.

[Erica]

Barrett ,
Just wanted to chime in here-I also read the article in PT magazine and actually I read mags from the back to the front and your article was the first one I read and frankly the only one I read so far. I had images of Berta "dancing" with her patients in my head!

Having just returned from some days off where I went to a wellness/spa/integrative medicine center - I took a "Chi practice" and a 'NIA" class where active and free movement is promoted-seeing the effect it had on the participants in the class made me all the more convinced that active and free movement is so vital to patient's healing. Those coupled with the 45 min breathing class made for a great "feel good" experience.

I will also send off something to the APTA as well. The more the merrier and then maybe a "voice" can be established.

Erica

[Barrett Dorko]

Erica,

Thanks for your future letter. Have you noticed that of those in Manhattan you're the only one that has participated in this forum? Of course, you were here beforehand, so the information provided participants at the class seems to have had no effect at all.

I realize that I'm just doing the math here and that I cannot know what the actual impact of my speaking may have had otherwise, but the math must count for something.

Ultimately, I think that forums like this reveal something evident in the therapy communities but rarely spoken of - fear. In my experience, therapists are hesitant to reveal what they do and even more hesitant to talk about what they think, and BBs like this insist upon an opinion of some sort. Having one that can be defended isn't usually what therapy is about these days, and I wonder if that will ever change.

Weren't the DPT programs supposed to change that?

Bobath had an opinion, and she was perfectly willing to state it and then defend it. Maybe that's what drew me her way. Paris was and is the same.

[Randy Dixon]

Barrett,

My wife has completed her DPT, I sat through most of the online courses with her (I have no idea why) and I can assure you, critical thinking is not required and not appreciated for the most part. I'm talking about the University of St. Augustine courses and I would add that there were some courses where it was required, Peter Huijbregts course being one of those.

[Barrett Dorko]

Randy,

Interesting. It occurs to me that if you claim that you are a critical thinker you are then obligated to be critical.

At the tea party we call therapy this is simply not tolerated, and thus our progression as a scientifically based discipline continues to, well, not really progress at all.

[colinaliz]

"dancing"

Barrett,
I am very glad to have found you again. I used to read your material all the time and then I lost you. I just read your post about the Bobaths, in ?1997? regarding the "dance".

I am trying to prepare a course called the "Art of Therapy". I am doing it for my practicum for my tDPT, if I can get my advisor to approve it! I have to and will do it anyway, practicum or not.

I am a pediatric physical therapist. I am trying to teach what I think you are talking about in reference to Berta Bobath. I believe it can be taught. I have taught it to 18 out of 20 of the SPTs that I have been CI to. I was a very sought after CI. From this I conclude that when PTs understand that there is more to threatment than technique and knowledge and evidence-based practice, and they can learn what that is about, they can be interested. It is not easy to understand the concept, much less how to include yourself in treatment in that way, and it is not for everyone.

I have not gotten any interest from the physical therapy community and most people express on their face or their words that they have no clue what I am talking about. I did discuss it with the publication person at the APTA. She immediately understood and stated that it was like her relationship with her daughter. I was thrilled that I had finally found a PT who understood and was interested. Then she told me that she was not a PT. I said, "Oh, that is why you understand." What a disappointment that was for me.

I have connected with DIR/Floortime, icdl is the website. They do educational and treatment courses and treat children on the spectrum, as well as infant-mother bonding, ect. I am ready to give up on PT. I am very inspired by your story. Maybe there is somewhere in PT that I belong. I would very much like that. I am searching for a place that I belong within that world. It is so needed in the profession, and I so need an avenue to to reduce my sense of isolation, I will look anywhere.

In general, I find at best skepticism and "interest", within my universe in general. A few special and close friends think that what I am trying to do is great!

I hope this gets posted so someone with like interest can can respond.
Deborah
I am new to this website and cannot even find my introductory posting. But I will tkeep looking at your link to find responses.