Using the concept of ideomotor therapy in the treatment...

[Diane]

Here is Natalie Angier's NYT article about ideomotor movement.

Abstract Thoughts? The Body Takes Them Literally

[Diane]

A yin-yanger came on this topic on facebook and we had quite a long chat. I think maybe he won't want to be my facebook friend now.

Too bad, he seemed nice. But I'm dead. So... [/eyesrollup]

After I read the last few posts on this thread I caught myself looking to the right as I reflected on what I had just read and then ended up looking left as I thought how I would respond. Upon further reflection, I am pretty sure I do this quite consistently depending on if I am reflecting or projecting. Interesting. thanks.

[Barrett Dorko]

I love this.

Potentially,you could get get a class to feel this without telling them it's ideomotion first. Maybe they can see it in others.

I think it also displays the power that context has upon our behavior, even the context in our own heads. Perhaps I should say "the context generated by our own brains irrespective of our physical surroundings."

Thanks Diane.

[Diane]

I'm probably hopping on the wrong thread, but I thought this should go with ideomotor movement, for sure. I think it's a pretty good example. I attached it to the facebook page too.

Moving Through Time: Thinking of the Past or Future Causes Us to Sway Backward or Forward.

[Luke Rickards]

Hi there,

Not yet. Although there is a small study currently underway in New Zealand.

[pashumi33]

Is there any research on ideomotor activity and its relevance to PT for patients with low back pain?

[Luke Rickards]

Could you elaborate on how much and what kind of information regarding the method (simple contact) the subject was given prior to agreeing to participate?

Hi Anders,

Sam tells me the following info was discussed regarding the treatment-
Discussion of ideomotion as an expression of instinctive motor response to various stimulii, including pain.
Social pressures to suppress authentic movement expression and some of the possible physiological results.
The nature of the manual technique that would be used.
Possible/Likely perceptions during the treatment.

[Diane]

I wrote a blogpost this morning on the Keller/Prinz paper, Differences Between Intention-Based and Stimulus-Based Actions.

My thinking is still awfully convoluted I'm afraid, but I'm (dimly) starting to see how something as wafty and non-material as an "idea" can take on an endogenous "reality" as firm as anything exogenous, and could become an inner "stimulus" sufficient to build a new movement pattern around. I think. I mean, if you are going to use illusion-producing methods like mirrors (visual) or skin stretch (kinesthetic) to help the motor system hook into a new way to produce less painful output, one might as easily just ask the patient to create their own "idea" of that, to look at an illusion reflected within another illusion reflected in an illusory rear-view mirror, then drive the vehicle (body) carefully out of the ditch it has become stuck in. Just bypass the whole debate over free will and whether it exists or doesn't. Our profession has always supposed to have been about returning that illusion to the patient, whether it exists or not (the current name for "free will" is "locus of control" as I recall).

I must admit to having struggled with this for a good long time. I think ideomotor treatment is a whole order of magnitude past where pain science is currently at, and progress for PT (in all aspects of neuroscience) slowed by philosophical impasses too big to even imagine, but I think they'll be "sublated" in time. If this is beyond where pain science is, then it's way beyond where most of the profession is, for pain science even in its current nascent state is way beyond where most of it still is, along with most of its mesodermally bogged down members.

[Luke Rickards]

Yes, I've seen that one.

[Diane]

A lot of stuff out there is linking ideomotion with mirror neurons.

[Diane]

Luke, you likely already saw this one: An Analysis of the Ideomotor Principle and TOTE It compares TOTE with "IMP" (the ideomotor principle).

The ideomotor principle (IMP), which was proposed multiple times during the 19th century [12, 19], hypothesizes a bidirectional action-effect linkage in which the desired (perceptual) effect triggers the execution of the action that previously caused that effect. The test operate test exit (TOTE) model of cybernetics [24] proposes goal-oriented action control.

In the ideomotor view, in a sense, causality, as present in the real world, is reversed in the inner world. A mental representation of the intended effect of an action is the cause of the action: here it is not the action that produces the effect, but the effect that produces the action. [25, par. 21.5] describes an “automatic mechanism” realizing this principle (see Fig 1): when the features of, say, an
apple are endogenously activated, an automatic mechanism is oriented toward (seeing or grasping) apples teleonomically.

I find the writing easier to grasp than Prinz's.. although it still seems pretty elusive to me.

[Diane]

Luke, it will be my pleasure.

[Luke Rickards]

Diane,

This looks like a gold mine. :thumbs_up

I loved the rephrasing of the James quote that Barrett uses in "Without Volition"-

Any representation of a perceivable event that goes along with, or follows from, a particular movement will exhibit the power to trigger the movement that will make this event appear in the perceptual input

If it's not too much to ask, I'd love chapter 5 when you get it.

[BB]

I see Jeannerod is an author. I believe he is of "end state comfort effect" fame.