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  • Against the zombification of PT

    I've been thinking today about a podcast I listened to yesterday, Podcast #22 in the series of brain science podcasts by DR. Ginger Campbell. Podcast #22 is an interview with Christof Koch, who is a neuroscientist interested in, I think it's fair to say, deconstructing the underpinnings of consciousness. He refers in the podcast to something he calls "zombie" behavior, which he says means learned behavior that has become unconscious, a normal state of affairs, like riding a bicycle or driving a car - complex motor actions that require no thinking or full attention anymore.

    I was even inspired to blog a bit about this, especially after reading Deric Bownds' blogpost this morning, Some rambling on selves and purposes, in which he refers to the rapidly-becoming-famous book by the Blakeslees, The Body has a Mind of its Own, on the brain's body maps.
    Bownds refers to another post on his site wherein he quotes from the book:
    So, is the self ultimately "just" an illusion?...According to the neuroscience of body maps - and incidentally, the majority of Eastern religions - in many respects, yes...A key point is that your mind feels like a seamless whole when "all your faculties" are working. But if your body mandala were to go on the fritz in one of a hundred ways, whether through damage to one map or several, or through a severing of between-map connections, you might suddenly experience extra arms, a phantom leg...hemineglect (where half the universe winks out of your awareness), alien hand syndrome, and all manner of delusions and misperceptions. Case studies of brain damage like these are one of the biggest philosophical, not to mention logical, arguments against the idea of a unitary psychic core. When certain parts of the brain break, certain parts of the mind break; the illusion is spoiled, and the underlying multifariousness of the psyche is exposed......The illusion of the self is that self is a kernel, rather than a distributed, emergent system....Localizations of psychic functions are better said to exist in loops of information processing, or circuits, rather than specific points...the...psychic self...is an orchestra without a conductor or a fixed score, but whose players are so good at collaborative improv that wonderful music keeps flowing out of it. Just as the orchestra has no score and no conductor, the mind has no kernel, no "little man" sitting at the center of the fray directing the action. But it is teeming with noncentral "little men," the brain's motley team of homunculi, who form the backbone of the whole production. And you, thankfully, have the irreducible illusion of being the conductor of yours life's music in all its complexity, emotional nuance, crescendo and diminuendo - the ballad that is the you-ness of you."
    It has not gone unnoticed by me in this life that it seems to be necessary to deliberately construct a new self once in awhile, when the old one no longer fits. This has never creeped me out or made me worry in the slightest. One just gets on with it. The metamorphic capacity of butterflies, or snakes' ability to shed skins, becomes more than just a curiosity - it becomes a comforting metaphor to which one can cling until things settle again.

    After a particularly brisk exchange over on MyPTSpace this past weekend (on a thread that is rapidly approaching 600 posts), some of these themes I've been thinking about lately congealed into another (heretical) thought: PTs act like zombies much of the time. They prefer to enact robotic protocols, robotically derived and robotically dished, robotically driven. They do NOT want to access their own life or creativity or access their own awareness, seem to prefer to act like zombies instead, cut off from their patients. At least, they seem to, for the agenda that appears to drive them politically, would drive them into interacting with nervous systems in increasingly robotic fashion. They certainly don't want to acknowledge that manual contact can be versatile.. Did I mention that they seem to want to know about pain, but not about the nervous system? As if the two could be separated? And they want to know how the things they do already relate to pain, not learn about pain so they might change the things they do once in awhile. And they want to take the whole profession in that direction. ("Lead me not into temptation, but deliver me from evil.." - drone of the zombies as they march along behind equally zombified insurance providers.) (A wee disclaimer; we are talking about American PTs for the most part, although there is at least one Canadian PT there who is lockstep with the PT Zombie Nation.)

    This is what I wrote there, on their so-called "pain forum":

    ... I thought this was the Pain Forum. Does no one here want to talk about pain? Does no one here want to discuss the thick density of exteroceptive, autonomic and nociceptive neural structures that populate the outermost layer of the body, how this might easily be the most overlooked and underrated layer of the body wall EVER, to get ANY respect from those who treat patients? How many of these fibres are fast, take freeways rather than back roads up into the sensory-motor cortex? How this level of innervation might relate to perceived pain? How if you want change (in a pain state) to happen, and fast, and usually for the better, input from skin is the way to go? How if you would like to see motor output improve, treat skin and sit back, let it improve by itself? Apparently not. (Man oh man, this is the juicy stuff. This is the stuff I wanted to learn when I was a newbie PT. I thought the profession would have some answers and was disappointed when it didn't. I had to wait for the neuroscience to catch up first. Well - news flash, it has, and most of it in the last 20 years. There is NO excuse for ignorance. NONE.)

    I think some people here think they'd be left jobless and homeless if word of this ever leaked out into the PT community at large, so they are acting in a manner to dissuade, demolish, denigrate and deny deny deny. Moreover they are frankly anti scientific in that they don't even want any, ANY PT research to be done on this - they think they've got that all covered - they think they know HOW ALL PT research ought to be conducted AND ON WHAT TOPICS.

    Perhaps they think they would have no place if PT ever took on what the real job should be, help patients to deal with pain, rather than dance around it, ignore simple measures that could help their brains to downregulate it, and torture them instead. With electrotherapy etc. With joint mobs and other heavy handling. With exhortations to develop certain "strengths" to combat perceived "weaknesses". Treating physical findings as "defect" rather than as a defense by a nervous system that senses threat.

    By all means, let us keep the ignorance level of the profession high and intact so that we can all gloriously push it forward as one united voice, unencumbered by any actual thought, reflection, or upgrade. Let's just keep adding woodchips and maybe people will think we know what we're talking about and that maybe some trees are growing somewhere. Above all let's all focus on the "tool" aspect of PT, but only the ones we allow ourselves collectively to use and not the tools we actually are being used AS by insurance etc., out in the world.
    The term "woodchips", as used by a poster there, is a metaphor for all the little science projects being cranked out over the last few years by (mostly ortho) PT. He's proud of the increase in quantity of these. My use of the term refers to a pile of debris accumulating as Occam's Chainsaw, fueled by neuroscience, continues to take out their ortho forest entirely until one day they realize, oops.. nothing left to provide us with oxygen for our deluded (zombie) treatment constructs.

    The other, more important thing is what I wrote in the blog, about how if I were a patient in pain my nervous system would sense "zombie" a mile away and react counter-productively, and outside of my conscious inhibitory control.

    Instead I'd want to go see someone who understood pain, and treated that, and from as non-zombie a place in their own conscious awareness as was possible, so that my nervous system could begin to restore itself while leaning on another's, even for just a little while.
    Diane
    www.dermoneuromodulation.com
    SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
    HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
    Neurotonics PT Teamblog
    Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
    Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
    @PainPhysiosCan
    WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
    @WCPTPTPN
    Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

    @dfjpt
    SomaSimple on Facebook
    @somasimple

    "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

    “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

    “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

    "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

    "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

  • #2
    Diane,

    Zombification should go into a thesaurus.

    I don't think many PTs appreciate how shackled they are by insurance orders; it is a way of life, and they have adjusted to it, while still being aware of a small bit of shackledom. It means that there can be little room for original thought or constructive criticism, because it is too hard to disobey the insurance context.

    Or so it seems. But there are ways out of this, because others have shown it is possible to be tied to insurance and still able to be creative....but I think they are a minority. Perhaps those unaware of how little freedom they have, and cannot think of an alternative, also cannot take on board anything which has not been handed down by local or national ortho gurus and have been told it is OK to do this.

    Peculiar...

    Nari

    Comment


    • #3
      Nari, I remembered a post I made ages ago, after reading about automaticity. Sort of the opposite of attention to nonconscious movement. I think this is what Koch is getting at with "zombie" behaviours.
      I think (most) PTs feel safer in shackles. They certainly don't want to consider what it might be like to operate without them. We could call the ones who want to reinforce shackle-wearing the Shackle-ists.

      (Nothing to do with Michael Shaklock.)
      Diane
      www.dermoneuromodulation.com
      SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
      HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
      Neurotonics PT Teamblog
      Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
      Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
      @PainPhysiosCan
      WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
      @WCPTPTPN
      Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

      @dfjpt
      SomaSimple on Facebook
      @somasimple

      "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

      “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

      “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

      "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

      "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh man this is soo appropriate I just slurped it up. Especially the part "they'd be left jobless and homeless if word of this ever leaked out into the PT community at large, so they are acting in a manner to dissuade, demolish, denigrate and deny deny deny"
        I'm desperately trying to get a few words together to explain exactly this.

        No, you would probably have more work than those two hands would ever be able to do....and a lot more satisfaction.

        Good
        Mariette

        Comment


        • #5
          I think if we were to really examine movement (we are supposedly the "movement specialists", at least in Canada - that was the official "brand" in PT for a very long time), we would realize that most of what most of "us" do every day at work is zombie behavior. When I say "us" I mean PTs in general, who mostly smile and cajole patients along, push their bodies around sometimes, zap them with this or that. I don't mean the "us" here at Somasimple.

          Most PTs do this easily. I think those who select potential students deliberately chose smiley friendly people - it doesn't hurt if they have good grades, but the "people person" qualities seem to matter. An awful lot. Are we selected for our ability to produce effortless social-zombie behaviour?

          Such zombie behaviour definitely does not require focused inner attention - it is produced when we are infants, quickly becomes automatic, and can be done while thinking about a million other tasks, which is why social interaction is largely zombie behaviour. (And I always found it to be a hollow experience - one of the greatest things I've found about being middle-aged is not having to pretend to be social when you aren't in the mood. Instead you can work on becoming eccentric.)

          Koch talks about how all these seemingly conscious interactions are actually subcortical and therefore zombie-esque. He recounts the Schiavo case, where even though the patient appeared to be capable of being interactive, she wasn't really. None of the brain parts required for generating cognition were working. Sleep-walking fits in here too, all sorts of complex motor activity.

          I have a complex motor zombie behaviour - my right hand types faster than I can see it moving. I really don't know how it does this. It's definitely a zombie, and I don't even want to think about how robust the pathways must be to give it that sort of effortless and careless speed, and relative accuracy. It can certainly type faster than I can think sometimes. Yet, it's a zombie that my own brain "manufactured" through my persistence. It is completely at my beck and call. At least it is for now.

          The down side is that this typing zombie only occupies my left side motor cortex. My left hand sits there watching and once in awhile jumps in to press the left shift key. I'm a very fast but completely one-handed typist. I don't know how this would look on an fMRI, or how it would compare to what an fMRI would look like had both hands learned to type. Or, perhaps more correctly, had I learned to use both hands for typing - because it has to do with attention, and where attention is placed, in the very delicate first stages of some complex motor task. (Now I feel I'm too far downstream to be able to go back and correct the trajectory. Besides, this seems quite efficient and I'm content with it.)

          What is odd to me, though, is how at work, my hands are completely switchable. The left hand definitely knows what it's doing when it works physically, non-verbally, kinesthetically. I switch back and forth between hands, waiting for movement from someone's body to register with one hand, while I maintain a still, static intervention with the other. Both hands (sides of my brain) can do this interchangeably. Both hands seem equally capable of this sort of "doing" and "sensing". It seems to me they can both do both functions at the same time.

          I think the real difference is in how my conscious awareness divides (then oscillates, I guess) between the two hands evenly when working with them at work - i.e., treating patients - then when I get home and type, the left-brain typing zombie is allowed to take over.

          To me this seems a fair distribution of labour. At work, I'm waiting for the patient's system to produce movement, most of the time, with my hands poised to both facilitate and respond to the slightest hint of it - not a lot of output from me. At home, it's just me and my own (low maintenance) life to deal with. (It would be nice to develop an exercising zombie, a cooking and cleaning zombie, a fix-a-nice-bubblebath zombie.. maybe I'll work harder on seeing if these can be installed as effortlessly as the typing zombie.)

          But all this is just a big preamble to why I put this thread here on Barrett's forum; here's why: close focused attention to initial movement is the only way to beat the zombie. In oneself or in others. You have to catch it before you can change it, or help someone else to change their own.

          I think (mechanical) pain could be construed as just another kind of zombie, one that has taken over consciousness. For sure pain is a form of brain output. And we know that mechanoreceptors are sensitized, making movement painful.

          I think Barrett is really on to something with insisting that we consider ideomotor movement, that finding it, finding those precious few seconds of initial trail to follow, is to recruit one's own zombie behaviour-producing-capable brain to destroy some of the movement zombies it has given rise to, usually inadvertently, especially the ones that hurt - again, usually inadvertently.

          The podcast is fascinating and will give you a better idea of why I'm going on about this. And remember, the word "zombie" as defined and used by Koch, gives us a good "intuition pump" (a term coined by Dan Dennett) for getting what bits of the brain's own behaviour need to be rerouted for successful downregulation of pain.
          Last edited by Diane; 10-10-2007, 07:28 PM.
          Diane
          www.dermoneuromodulation.com
          SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
          HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
          Neurotonics PT Teamblog
          Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
          Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
          @PainPhysiosCan
          WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
          @WCPTPTPN
          Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

          @dfjpt
          SomaSimple on Facebook
          @somasimple

          "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

          “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

          “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

          "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

          "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

          Comment


          • #6
            I think that this thread has tremendous potential and will be the perfect place to discuss the huge significance of Blakeslees' book.

            The text The Illusion of Conscious Will by Wegner comes to mind. I know a few lines from this that will help us put this "zombie" idea into a context to which our colleagues might relate.

            I'll post them soon.
            Barrett L. Dorko

            Comment


            • #7
              I like the direction Koch is going - have been keeping an eye on him.

              Social interaction for some is largely zombie-esque; words flow and repartee engages. For others it remains a consistent conscious effort, especially if one would rather be out looking at rocks.

              Piano playing becomes nonconscious once the effort of learning how to move the upper limbs eases off; also since I had started eliciting ideomotion (2 years ago now) in myself and patients; once I stopped wondering 'will this work for this person?' or 'what should I be doing?' it was so easy.
              I am convinced this needs to happen before PTs in general let go of hard-won beliefs where treatments are complex and the dreaded 'compliance' factor which patients often get confused about haunts the intended goals.

              Most of us are right-handed including me, but my left hand/arm is much stronger than the right. I instinctively use my left hand for very tight lids on jars; when I try to use my right hand, it's pretty useless. Yet for sustained finer work, the right is better.

              We became movement specialists unofficially here in Oz in the 90s - but it was still therapist-guided. Likely still is. We were very obedient to the patient's expectation of 'tell me what to do and how to do it'. We clung to the 'expert' label. We are shackled to convention, rather than insurance companies, and the result is maybe much the same.

              Meanwhile, I'm hunting up more of Koch's work and also Wegner. In the latest The Scientist there is also a review of an interesting book by David Barash: Natural Selections.
              When he is mentioning Tycho Brahe, who could not totally accept the fact that the earth did revolve around the sun with the planets, Barash mutters:

              "..give ground in response to undeniable facts, but if these facts conflict with your more cherished beliefs, hold fast to the latter"
              Quite.

              Nari
              Last edited by nari; 11-10-2007, 03:42 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Barret,
                Yes, I think this thread can help widen the tunnel a bit more (I mean, metaphoric tunnel through the underpinnings of our own profession).

                Nari, your left arm is stronger - interesting.

                I decided to bring this Pain and Movement thread here (to keep my own brain more organized. ).
                Diane
                www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                @PainPhysiosCan
                WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                @WCPTPTPN
                Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                @dfjpt
                SomaSimple on Facebook
                @somasimple

                "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                Comment


                • #9
                  In Wegner’s book about the illusion of conscious will he says near the end (page 318) (This book’s title) certainly gives the impression of being a poke in the eye for readers who believe in free will. It is perfectly reasonable to think the book is about determinism and that it will not give the idea of free will a fair hearing.

                  (Note: Determinism is the philosophical proposition that every event, including human cognition and behavior, decision and action, is causally determined by an unbroken chain of prior occurrences. Determinism may also be defined as the thesis that there is at any instant exactly one physically possible future. Thank you Wikipedia.)

                  Wegner goes on: But our discussion has actually been about the experience of free will, examining at length when people feel it and when they don’t.

                  The operative word here is feel, and if therapy for painful problems doesn’t emphasize that (and, mostly, it doesn’t) free will will be absent in both the therapist and patient.

                  Zombification naturally follows.
                  Barrett L. Dorko

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The operative word here is feel, and if therapy for painful problems doesn’t emphasize that (and, mostly, it doesn’t) free will will be absent in both the therapist and patient.
                    This is the thought that woke me up at 5:00 this morning. Perhaps it's because I was reading The Body Has a Mind of It's Own before bed, perhaps it because I have been trying to find a way recently to fit into the current "choreographed" PT culture. I think feeling is the answer. If an exercise or training routine is to have any hope of changing pain it must emphasize the feel of the movement. I'm pretty sure this is what Feldenkrais was all about.

                    The Zombie image is perfect and I'm finding that even people trying to do ideomotion are susceptible to falling into the trap of movement without feeling. I have patients who report that they get no benefit from doing corrective movement with or without my manual contact. When I ask them how they want to move, some are very good at mimicking what they think ideomotion should look like based off a few successful trials. They never have the feeling though, no characteristics of correction. So perhaps we are not primarily looking for a movement, but a feeling or sensation?

                    Another thing I notice when observing peoples attempts at corrective movement is that sometimes when I observe it... It just doesn't look/feel right to me. I've been hesitant to step in and say something, but it's like I'm looking at a fake work of art (or a zombie perhaps?). I don't know if its even possible to see if someone is doing it wrong, but when I ask them what they feel... no characteristics. Any thoughts Barrett?
                    Christopher Bryhan MPT

                    "You are more likely to learn something by finding surprises in your own behavior then by hearing surprising facts about people in general"
                    Daniel Kahneman - Thinking Fast and Slow

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Chris,

                      This is precisely why I always emphasize that the characteristics of correction (all of them feelings) trump the appearance of the movement itself.

                      You're exactly right when you say you can sense when others aren't moving authentically and when you can see the trap our "normal" life full of zombification sets for us. Feldenkrais said all of this repeatedly, but, in my experience, today's instructors of his work don't emphasize this as he did. They have succumbed to what they know will sell.
                      Barrett L. Dorko

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        "you can sense when others aren't moving authentically"

                        I think this phenomenon is so well described in "Blink" by Gladwell - very familiar to you, Barrett. Evaluation without rational thought processes.
                        We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are - Anais Nin

                        I suppose it's easier to believe something than it is to understand it.
                        Cmdr. Chris Hadfield on rise of poor / pseudo science

                        Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley

                        We don't need a body to feel a body. Ronald Melzack

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Bas, I was thinking about "Blink" when I wrote about sensing the authenticity. I see this in tai chi also. Some of the worst tai chi I ever saw was out of a trained dancer. The tai chi form devoid of feeling is considered "empty". When doing Simple Contact this is something I sense also. It's like an empty container moving around, those with the C of C feel like fluid sloshing around inside the container causing it to move.

                          But how to change it without coercing... context I'm sure is huge. Problem is that I don't see this being practical in most PT settings. The context is not optimal for authentic movement or feeling. What most people want or expect is to not feel one thing... pain. PT settings typically are places that focus on removing when they should add or adding where they should remove.

                          Given the limits of some of these expectations I've found that those who have trouble with ideomotion (and they are many where I come from) tend to have a hard time feeling anything . They typically do better with the coordinative exercises (or anything choreographed but with the focus on feeling something) first, then ideomotion... just an observation. Kind of lets them know how much of a zombie they really are first, then they can go about finding their movement.
                          Last edited by christophb; 12-10-2007, 05:38 PM.
                          Christopher Bryhan MPT

                          "You are more likely to learn something by finding surprises in your own behavior then by hearing surprising facts about people in general"
                          Daniel Kahneman - Thinking Fast and Slow

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In my book there's an essay titled "The Lady in the Lace Gloves."

                            When I saw this woman in the waiting room before I ever began speaking to her I knew I was dead man, and she didn't want to hear a thing about becoming physically who she actually was.
                            Barrett L. Dorko

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Chris, your post #13 is among the best I've ever read from anyone. Thank you for that.
                              I can "feel" your words.
                              I get ideomotor movement (Barrett, maybe it could also be given the name feel-omotor movement) in a more nuanced way now.
                              Diane
                              www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                              SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                              HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                              Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                              Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                              Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                              @PainPhysiosCan
                              WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                              @WCPTPTPN
                              Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                              @dfjpt
                              SomaSimple on Facebook
                              @somasimple

                              "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                              “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                              “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                              "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                              Comment

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