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The Power of Dissonance

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  • #76
    A Butleresque response to the massage therapist's erroneous belief on hip positions might have been:

    'Ever seen a sleeping or a dead person?'

    Nari

    Comment


    • #77
      Aaah. The "we were taught" answer. The cynic in me wants to ask: "Were you also taught to stop using your brain?" or: "Did you not ask what the information was based on?" But I guess that would truely start a dissonance-cascade...I can almost hear the shutters slam shut....

      nari, that is priceless!
      We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are - Anais Nin

      I suppose it's easier to believe something than it is to understand it.
      Cmdr. Chris Hadfield on rise of poor / pseudo science

      Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley

      We don't need a body to feel a body. Ronald Melzack

      Comment


      • #78
        Two new justifications

        I was told today by a student that this course “didn’t fulfill her expectations” and another man in the same class told everyone that his “hands were too big” to employ Simple Contact. I’m not kidding, and he was perfectly serious about this.

        As I continue to examine various techniques of self-justification used to reduce dissonance, I find statements like this more sensible if not more acceptable. The first doesn’t contain much in the way of creativity but since her “expectations” remain a complete mystery it is at least cryptic in nature. My best guess is that she expected to be told that there was a special spot to touch and a magical amount of pressure to use for pain relief. At least, that’s what a lot of therapists seem to want though they’d hesitate to admit this out loud.

        This woman isn’t going to take seriously anything I said. She made it clear that this was my fault because I hadn’t divined her expectations, though she said nothing about my not fulfilling the course objectives. That’s something I always do.

        The guy with the “too big” hands surprised me. He had seemed to get me earlier in the day but clearly his brain was churning away in dissonant mode and his final statement popped out in an effort to explain why he wasn’t going to ever touch his patients despite the fact that this tends be sort of necessary for ideomotion to emerge the first couple of times. He knew this, but he never intends to use it and he just had to say something. I suppose it made him feel better, which, of course, is the purpose of self-justification to begin with.

        I should be grateful, I guess.

        At least he didn’t blame me.
        Barrett L. Dorko

        Comment


        • #79
          So sad that so many therapists have made it a point to never learn to use their hands or feel human organisms' nervous systems change through contacting them. So sad that an entire HPSG profession exists based on
          1. not touching anyone if at all possible, or
          2. touching them way too hard with way too deep a focal length when they do finally take on manual treatment.
          Diane
          www.dermoneuromodulation.com
          SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
          HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
          Neurotonics PT Teamblog
          Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
          Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
          @PainPhysiosCan
          WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
          @WCPTPTPN
          Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

          @dfjpt
          SomaSimple on Facebook
          @somasimple

          "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

          “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

          “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

          "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

          "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

          Comment


          • #80
            They might be scared of the 'magic' of touch, meaning losing control over their patients. The expression of a 'workover by a PT' is still very alive and well in the expectations of patient and doctor; although it is slowly dying out here.
            To me there still remains a strong fear that unless the PT tells patients what to do and precisely how to do it after poking and pummelling tissues, it is not dinkydi therapy.

            Nari

            PS Dinkydi = real, genuine, according to the rules.

            Comment


            • #81
              Nari,

              You and I discussed the problems inherent to control in posts #21 and 22 here previously, and I agree entirely.

              The more I think about it the more certain I become that this woman yesterday expected another routine. The comforting (though illusionary) nature of routine and repetitive, protocol-driven practice is easily disrupted with neuroscience education. This explains why so many avoid it.

              Exactly one student out of 27 in Jacksonville Florida yesterday had even heard of Butler's name, and the class was full of PTs. This is frustrating, tragic, inexcusable and common.

              It is also completely predictable.

              Yet, the NOI group offers for these patients something a lot closer to a routine of treatment than I ever do or ever will, and if the essential diagnosis of an abnormal neurodynamic ever catches on (and that's a big "if") it's easy to predict something else about the future teaching of Simple Contact.

              It won't happen.

              Any way you look at it, I'm screwed.

              Okay, gotta leave the restaurant here in Orlando and smile at a large class once again.

              I'll get paid, but it's killing me.
              Barrett L. Dorko

              Comment


              • #82
                Barrett, life will kill us all, no matter what we do to fill the 24/7 of it.
                Have fun smiling..
                Diane
                www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                @PainPhysiosCan
                WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                @WCPTPTPN
                Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                @dfjpt
                SomaSimple on Facebook
                @somasimple

                "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                Comment


                • #83
                  Barrett-

                  On the future of Simple Contact and ideomotion for pain relief - you may not be giving some of the rest of us enough credit...
                  Jason Silvernail DPT, DSc, FAAOMPT
                  Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy
                  Fellowship-Trained in Orthopedic Manual Therapy

                  Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist


                  The views expressed in this entry are those of the author alone and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the US Government.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Well, you're right. A bad day yesterday and even worse today so far.

                    Please come back here and help me out.

                    Oh yes, bring your weapon.
                    Barrett L. Dorko

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      If it makes you feel better, I've been using SC all morning long, even got a referral for it from a therapist who heard about my "neuro" treatments.

                      Chris
                      Christopher Bryhan MPT

                      "You are more likely to learn something by finding surprises in your own behavior then by hearing surprising facts about people in general"
                      Daniel Kahneman - Thinking Fast and Slow

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Barrett-
                        I'm on the way. Surprisingly enough, they don't have a second amendment in Germany, so I had to leave my Beretta back in the US. Maybe I can hit a gun show on the way over.
                        [no letters, please - I'm just kidding]
                        Jason Silvernail DPT, DSc, FAAOMPT
                        Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy
                        Fellowship-Trained in Orthopedic Manual Therapy

                        Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist


                        The views expressed in this entry are those of the author alone and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the US Government.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Barrett,

                          The international SC army is small, but you are not alone.

                          Thought of the day: Did you know that the bull sharks off NW Florida test positive to Zoloft? And probably Lipitor??

                          Must be something about these Floridians.....

                          Nari

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Barrett,
                            Just piping in too.... all is not hopeless! I used SC this afternoon. I'm finding it to be great fun, and it's the first time I've ever instructed patients to do something, and had them come back with a sheepish "I hope it's OK.... I've been doing it more than you said."

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              And I bumped into a woman on the street today, who I once taught how to let her corrective movement find her. She stopped me to thank me, yet again. She had phoned to say thanks, and wrote a card to say thanks. People who actually 'get' it, really like it, and they tend to not need any further treatment. Imagine, a small band of PTs actually helping people stay off treatment. What a concept.
                              Diane
                              www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                              SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                              HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                              Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                              Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                              Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                              @PainPhysiosCan
                              WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                              @WCPTPTPN
                              Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                              @dfjpt
                              SomaSimple on Facebook
                              @somasimple

                              "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                              “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                              “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                              "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                These are encouraging comments and I appreciate them. But the focus of my concern isn't the patient's understanding. I rarely found that to be a problem. It's the therapist's response to the evidence I provide.

                                I just wrote this on the plane:

                                As far as I know there’s no way to accurately measure how much self-justification anyone might use in order to reduce cognitive dissonance. I assume that a combination of tactics or an escalation of their expression or some creative and especially aggressive employment of the more irritating methods commonly used might show up occasionally – a sort of “world-class” justification response might blossom before us and that, I suppose, would be worth noting.

                                I think I saw it today.

                                I sometimes say half-jokingly that I learned from my mother a withering expression that I’ve found remarkably effective when it comes to quieting others. It’s so good in fact that I learned long ago not use it on anyone in my family because it’s just too much. I save it for the occasionally miscreant who has tried my patience beyond what I can tolerate and this only happens once a year or so I think. I’m pretty sure.

                                I pulled it out today when the entire back row of students in a small, crowded room began to carry on a conversation during my lecture. They were laughing and writing notes and, I suppose, enjoying some sort of private joke so after a few minutes of this I trained my mother’s gaze in their direction, assuming that this was a proportional response and that I really had no choice. After all, I work for these people. They’ve paid me a fee to attend and I simply cannot say anything.

                                Nothing. No response. I might as well have been in another country as far as they were concerned. I noticed that the shushing from some other students directed toward them had no effect either so I felt a little better. Ten more shots with my laser beam followed and the din actually seemed to increase. I tell you, my mother would have been apoplectic.

                                True to form, my final demonstration of Simple Contact elicited from one of the group a comment that revealed he hadn’t heard a thing I’d said all day. I presume he left with the ideas regarding manual care and pain that he’d entered with perfectly intact and comfortably seated in his brain.

                                Perhaps I needed to see this today in order to remind me that my best efforts to teach are really no match for techniques others have honed for years. Compared to them, I’m an amateur, and, as any defensive football coach will tell you, it’s always easier to break up another’s plan than it is to sustain your own.

                                I forgot that for many the exploration of ideas is a contest, not a way of growing, and I left Florida thoroughly beaten today.

                                I’m sure it will happen again, but at least not tomorrow.

                                Tomorrow I’m not teaching.
                                Barrett L. Dorko

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