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  • My objections have always been the same, and they have nothing to do with Karie's practice. I simply won't tolerate being told how to behave.

    Too old for that.
    Barrett L. Dorko

    Comment


    • Karie, you can't ask that particular leopard to change his spots for you. It's a self-change project. Nothing wrong with your learning skills, but you will need to take yourself in hand emotionally and not rely on outsiders to "handle" that part of you.

      I've started a new thread that I hope can help.
      Last edited by Diane; 21-02-2007, 09:52 PM.
      Diane
      www.dermoneuromodulation.com
      SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
      HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
      Neurotonics PT Teamblog
      Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
      Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
      @PainPhysiosCan
      WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
      @WCPTPTPN
      Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

      @dfjpt
      SomaSimple on Facebook
      @somasimple

      "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

      “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

      “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

      "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

      "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

      Comment


      • Hi Karie,

        I'd suggest that adding Barrett to your "ignore list" is the most tenable solution to your problem. Coincidently, it's what our profession has done to great effect when experiencing the same problem you describe.
        "I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris

        Comment


        • Hi Karie,

          I think I understand what you are saying; correct me if that is not so.
          The thought of a void after years of satisfying clinical applications is scary; but you have one big advantage over those who simply avoid self-change; you want to learn to fill that void, and gain a better understanding of why you do what you do.

          Re Barrett; when I first "met" him on another forum, I thought: well, here is a bear living in the woods who appears and scares people with a few roars. But what this bear was saying/writing is what got me going. A literary bear who thinks, so he cannot be all ursine-like. If you listen, you will find the void filling up slowly. Someone else can answer your questions if you like, but as long as you listen to the roar (or song) the singer won't cause you any concern. And if you listen to the song in his class, the same applies.

          You might find the 'spots' change without much effort - your perceptions of his spots and yours, too.
          You're not throwing away years of hands-on work; don't think of the how being lost, just think of the why. Then the how follows.

          Nari

          Comment


          • Nari,

            that's exactly what I have been trying to express. I appreciate you and Diane's understanding and patience. Thanks !

            Karie:teeth:

            Comment


            • The truly creative mind in any field is no more than this: A human creature born abnormally, inhumanly sensitive. To them a touch is a blow, a sound is a noise…Add to this cruelly delicate organism the overpowering necessity to create…so that without creating something of meaning their very breath is cut off…they are not really alive unless they are creating.

              Pearl Buck

              I’ve long contended that ideomotion is a creative act. After all, it has in common with creative activity uniqueness and origins in internal conversation. I know a bit about writing and can tell you that creative writing surprises the writer as they write it. Similarly, corrective movement is surprising to the one doing it.

              I’ve written of this extensively in Movement and Creation and Movement and Imagination and of its relation to pain relief here and in about a hundred archived posts here and there.

              But there’s more. In An Alchemy of Mind Diane Ackerman writes of creative acts affect us and, in fact, protect us: “Art makes eccentricity safe…the arts teach us about how the brain perceives; they’re forms of knowing. In a sense, artists are ‘neurologists’ who unknowingly study the brain with techniques unique to them.”

              Ackerman goes on to describe her dual interest in the beautiful things she might see and the less attractive chemical makeup of those objects. This is precisely Dawkins’ view in Unweaving the Rainbow. She says that artists have an “easily accessible synesthesia” and that this helps them to “combine unrelated things” much in the same way surrealism does.

              So, what’s this got to do with magic?

              More soon.
              Barrett L. Dorko

              Comment


              • Legerdemain

                Legerdemain is French for “lightness of hand” though its definition in English is “an illusory feat; considered magical by naive observers.”

                In other words, what simply meant gentleness in one language has come to be associated with trickery in another, and that other is my own.

                The method I’ve chosen for my own manual approach is invariably gentle and commonly thought to be magical in its effect. My students continually look for “the trick” I must employ, and, now that I consider the close cultural relation between lightness of hand and deception, I can appreciate why.

                I work hard to overcome their suspicion regarding my deceptive abilities by speaking of the things science has taught us about the power of awareness and how that awareness can grow within the patient if manual handling doesn’t attempt to do something it can’t (like specifically permanently elongate connective tissue) and instead enhances another’s sensibilities (the work of Frederic Sachs and attention to Weber-Fechner).

                Still, many continue to wonder at my skills rather than appreciate my knowledge; knowledge readily available to them. To the classes I become the magician who immediately explains the method behind the magic. This, of course, is not what they expect when they see some legerdemain, so I become to many a rather odd character and they wonder why I would do such a thing.

                I figure that this is what they’re paying for.
                Barrett L. Dorko

                Comment


                • Diversion vs. Distraction

                  In the Stein and Day Handbook of Magic the author makes a clear distinction between diversion and distraction. From the book’s glossary:

                  Diversion – A way of fooling the audience by taking their attention away from something they should not notice.

                  Distraction – A violent way of taking the audience’s attention away from something it should not notice.

                  I’ve not seen this dissimilarity elsewhere in my reading but assume any skillful magician understands the significance of a subtle change in the size, speed or intensity of their movement. I’m wondering if this distinction might also apply to the manner of handling the therapist employs, and there are two things to consider here.

                  Currently there is a discussion amongst the moderators of Soma Simple regarding the effect of the depth of physical intrusion and the consequent response in the insula. I’m wondering if the literature would support the notion that gentle handling would invariably produce a different and more desirable output from the brain. Add to that the way I always speak to my patients gently when I first handle them. This is a diversion according to the world of magic, and I think that the speed and power behind most coercive techniques would be considered a distraction.

                  Might this account for the magical nature of certain forms of care?
                  Barrett L. Dorko

                  Comment


                  • Barrett, I very much like the distinction this author drew between diversion and distraction (of attention).

                    Definitely, moving slowly, speaking gently, handling carefully, making the very first physical contact a soft warm one, will get the nervous system interested in what might happen next. If not much happens next, exteroceptively, the nervous system will devise some way to meet its own expectation perhaps - create its own diversion? As long as it isn't "distracted" by noxious exteroception, it will take it on the new info as "normal" and act as if it had always done things that way itself.

                    Of course, some priming will be in order or the system will be stalled by suspicion.
                    Diane
                    www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                    SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                    HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                    Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                    Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                    Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                    @PainPhysiosCan
                    WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                    @WCPTPTPN
                    Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                    @dfjpt
                    SomaSimple on Facebook
                    @somasimple

                    "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                    “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                    “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                    "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                    "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                    Comment


                    • Diane,

                      Great link. I’m struck by the emphasis on the unconscious here and have currently concluded that when magical therapy is employed a great deal is done and perceived unconsciously by both the therapist and the patient.

                      In Hiding the Elephant: How Magicians Invented the Impossible and Learned to Disappear by Jim Steinmeyer the author makes it clear that though magicians are are among the world’s greatest keepers of secrets, it is a fact that even if you know how their tricks are done, you don’t know much at all.

                      Perhaps this explains how I can reveal everything I know about Simple Contact and ideomotion and still can’t get people to employ this method in the clinic.

                      In fact, I think that this is the main thing this thread has taught me.
                      Barrett L. Dorko

                      Comment


                      • This thread remains remarkably popular and I've more to say, but before I do I have a question.

                        Suppose I were to put together a one day workshop titled Manual Magic and used much of what we've discussed here as a way of introducing the neuroscience that supports my method.

                        Think that would generate some interest?
                        Barrett L. Dorko

                        Comment


                        • Yes. People would be curious, their imaginations would be encouraged, and they might come away feeling more like magicians.
                          Diane
                          www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                          SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                          HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                          Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                          Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                          Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                          @PainPhysiosCan
                          WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                          @WCPTPTPN
                          Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                          @dfjpt
                          SomaSimple on Facebook
                          @somasimple

                          "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                          “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                          “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                          "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                          "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                          Comment


                          • It might generate interest in the workshop, but would it be enough to increase the chances of Simple Contact being used in practice? Unfortunately, I'm not sure it would. Hope I'm proven wrong.

                            eric
                            Eric Matheson, PT

                            Comment


                            • Barrett,

                              It still would require that people start thinking and educating themselves, question what it is they've been doing and why. Spend some time doing simple contact not merely as a curiosity but as a practice...

                              Not that this is what i've seen happen or anything.

                              How about this for a workshop... "How to feel temporarily uncomfortable in the clinic an survive"

                              Chris
                              Christopher Bryhan MPT

                              "You are more likely to learn something by finding surprises in your own behavior then by hearing surprising facts about people in general"
                              Daniel Kahneman - Thinking Fast and Slow

                              Comment


                              • Perhaps if there was a scantily dressed magician's assistant too. Just a thought.
                                "I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris

                                Comment

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