Postural Restoration

[stregapez]

Olly,

(Sorry to have spelled your name wrong above ~ wasn't any attempt at humor there, just spaciness)

So, a few questions come to mind directly relating to what you said above : Would you expect the above scenario to necessarily or typically cause pain? , What type of pain would it tend to cause? Why would it cause pain (in nervous system terms)? And are there any studies yet indicating that this type of assymetry causes pain ?

In case it's of import/of interest, I am right handed and my right shoulder is higher, by the way, but I have no back or torso pain unless i sit for long static hours at the computer for days, or do hip hyperextension exercises. I'm 40

Dana

[Diane]

Thanks for your first round of answers Olly. I have more questions, but I'll get in line behind others, let you have time to answer their questions.

[nari]

How instant is instant? Seconds?A few minutes?

The complexity of reasoning and special names for vague areas of the body is a bit of a worry. I don't think one can make up new names without a good deal of backing from the scientific community.

One should not have to take a course in order to understand the basic theory behind how a muscle group behaves under stress, normal comfortable positions and in sport.

Can you elaborate on your views on how the brain and CNS fits into what you have said so far? Much appreciated.

Nari

[Luke Rickards]

Let's assume

assuming everything I have said is correct

Well, that's just the problem. How does it work if we don't assume this?

Luke

[Jon Newman]

Olly, I'm getting the sense that your minute or two might be up.

[EricM]

Humour Break!

Rogue Science

[bernard]

Hi All and Welcome to Olly.

I'm frustated. I was told that diaphragm, as lungs and many/all things in chest/belly were already asymetrical.

As Nari, I think that the poor balanced (often pain free) patients are the results of muscle activation/relaxation governed/dictated by brain.

Your statements tell us that it is possible to have a reverse opportunity? acting on muscles will change the brain?

[nari]

I keep reminding myself of CP patients, who are about as asymmetrical as one can get, with what seems to be very overloaded segments. Yet they are not in pain, apart from various common complaints that fit within the scope of 'usual' complaints such as worn menisci, etc.
Asymmetry and pain are not related; the brain does not object to asymmetry.

Nari

[Barrett Dorko]

Check out post #51 in the "Posture and Pain" thread. I think it relates pretty well to this discussion.

Where are the rest of the PRI practitioners? Is Olly the only one willing to speak? Why is Hruska himself silent?

[Bas Asselbergs]

Asymmetry. Assuming most of the population is not ambidextrous, and being a moving bipedal animal, often using vehicles and tools and machines and pencils and mouses (!) with a distinct dominant side - and assuming we do not know when we are dysfunctional, because apparently it doesn't always cause pain or discomfort - we are all going to be eager subjects for postural restoration - FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES. I can't help but see a big flaw in the logic of the whole theory.

I do not doubt for a minute, that the actual therapeutic intervention will have success, but I doubt that it has anything to do with the minutae of the techniques, and all to do with the perception and nervous system of the patient receiving the treatment.

I have to commend you Olly, on your obvious courage to jump into a thread with such a critical flavour, and on your enthousiasm for the technique. I think the gap between what I have learned to see as "key" to therapy is just too far removed from what you see as the key.

I must add that I would have responded very differently 10-15 years ago, when my level of understanding was such that the proposed mechanism underpinning Postural Restoration, would have been very alluring....

[Jon Newman]

Bas, you're correct that those on this site often are critical and Olly may not have had an appreciation for this as demonstrated by asking us to make some very large assumptions and to humor him, neither of which are likely to help get across any important points. I agree that those using the approach see results (not unlike those using MFR). I even note that some of the "restoration" techniques are similar to mine (spending some time on diaphragmatic breathing for example) but with a different explanation for why doing such a thing might be important for something like pain.

In an earlier post Olly asks what is supposed to be rhetorical question but I'll try to answer it anyway.

How can asymmetry not be a problem when it puts uneven loads on joint surfaces and muscles are forced to work asymmetrically and inefficiently?

Joints have a certain capacity to handle uneven loads, they always have. In fact, unless there is an asymmetrical force across a joint, it won't move.

[Bas Asselbergs]

Jon, well said.
Olly, my first reaction to that question was: "Since when is it up to me to prove a negative?" The question is rife with assumptions: "uneven" - measured how exactly? "Inefficiently" - measured how exactly? "Asymmetrically" - measured how exactly? I am saying I do understand the train of thought and the seemingly logical process here, but it does not exactly a process that stands up to Occam's razor, is it?

[Barrett Dorko]

Jon and Bas,

As always, some inciteful and, to me, perfectly appropriate questions. I'm assuming Olly doesn't find this as amusing as he had previously, but you never know about such things.

Olly,

Write your fellow PRIers and ask them to join us. You've been doing the heavy lifting alone and that's just not fair. I'm sure they've got something to say.

[Diane]

Barrett, "incite"ful or "insight"ful or both?

[ollyhall]

Why so smug?

Hi all, I find it comical that without ever meeting me Mr Dorko seems to think he knows how I'm taking all of your criticism. I entered this forum believing that it was a site to further knowledge by talking with other therapists about approaches they are using. So far not one of you has asked a qustion in a manner that belies true interest, rather the mood of the group appears very confrontational and eager to put down any approach that you do not understand. Before I start to answer your questions again, I would like to know what you all do, what approaches do you use and just in case I am not familier with your approaches I would appreciate a short synopsis of what you do and why.

Some of you have neat little quotes on your replies, so let me share one of my favorites with you all.

"Han som tror han er ferdig utlaert er ikke utlaert men ferdig!" Nils Arne Eggen. Roughly translated it means "If you think your learning is finished, you are not learned but finished!"

Olly Hall, PT, PRC