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  • #76
    Hi Diane,

    If that is the case then I'll stick with conduction as the most likely method of heat transfer.

    Thanks for your help.
    "I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Diane
      (What do you think Barrett? Too radical?)
      You're not on the orthopedic massage yahoo group, are you, Diane?

      I am, and last night somene posted a neurology/brain related question about a client with limited movement in an arm . The topic made me think of this message board, and I suggested people on the yahoo group might want to check out Somasimple. I identified you folks as a very bright group of PTs with "somewhat radical" ideas (i did put radical in quotes)

      Probably just synchronicity

      Dana (becoming left-handed with the mouse)

      Comment


      • #78
        You're not on the orthopedic massage yahoo group, are you, Diane?
        Nope. Not me.
        Diane
        www.dermoneuromodulation.com
        SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
        HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
        Neurotonics PT Teamblog
        Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
        Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
        @PainPhysiosCan
        WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
        @WCPTPTPN
        Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

        @dfjpt
        SomaSimple on Facebook
        @somasimple

        "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

        “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

        “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

        "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

        "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

        Comment


        • #79
          I thought of a name:

          Integumentals

          What do people think?
          Diane
          www.dermoneuromodulation.com
          SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
          HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
          Neurotonics PT Teamblog
          Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
          Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
          @PainPhysiosCan
          WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
          @WCPTPTPN
          Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

          @dfjpt
          SomaSimple on Facebook
          @somasimple

          "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

          “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

          “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

          "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

          "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

          Comment


          • #80
            How about...

            Stratum Corneum Tactile Suasian Practitioner. Too wordy?

            eric
            Eric Matheson, PT

            Comment


            • #81
              How about...

              Stratum Corneum Tactile Suasian Practitioner. Too wordy?

              eric
              no.. it's .. interesting... "Stratum Corneum" sounds Latin, firm, and mesoderm-esque, while Tactile Suasion sounds soft and bendy like water.

              But what do you think of "Integumentals", as a one-word name? The advantage is, I don't think anyone has ever used it before, so it isn't asssociated with any nonsense, at least not yet and not if I have anything to do with its useage.
              Diane
              www.dermoneuromodulation.com
              SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
              HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
              Neurotonics PT Teamblog
              Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
              Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
              @PainPhysiosCan
              WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
              @WCPTPTPN
              Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

              @dfjpt
              SomaSimple on Facebook
              @somasimple

              "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

              “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

              “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

              "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

              Comment


              • #82
                Jon,

                I think that we should consider warming in the same way we consider pain, ie What are its origins? It is clear that a generalised warming following correction is different in nature to the burning feeling some patients describe.

                The origins of warmth would be -
                1. thermoreception (most common)
                2. chemical irritation (eg acid on skin)
                3. secondary hyperthermia (CRSP/perihperal nerve damage)
                4. central mechanisms (if they can create pain then I am sure heat as well)

                Of course, processing is important as well (see attachment)

                Luke
                Attached Files
                Luke Rickards
                Osteopath

                Comment


                • #83
                  We have all seen how some people prefer heat to ice or vice versa to soothe their pains. Excluding the counterirritant effects, could a simple preference like this be any indication of what change needs to occur in the tissues?

                  eric
                  Eric Matheson, PT

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    How can you not love this site?

                    Luke, great summary.
                    "I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Taking a page from Barrett's book, I think we need to distinguish between the "cause" of warming versus the "source" of warming.
                      In other words, warming comes from inside or outside. If it comes from inside it's from metabolism; the autonomic (effector) nervous system's job is to expel it through skin, through circulation through skin. (Cause?)

                      If it comes from the outside, it's the sensory (thermoreceptor/afferent) nervous system's job to bring the news in so the CNS can gauge the threat level. Too much, the thermoregulation gets thrown off track/overwhelmed. Too little warmth/too much cold, it will have to stoke up the inner furnace a bit. (Source?)

                      Of course, I'm still quite mixed up about which goes with what.
                      And blisters can come up on skin from a hypnotized subject who thinks they've been burned.
                      Last edited by Diane; 26-05-2006, 05:21 AM.
                      Diane
                      www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                      SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                      HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                      Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                      Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                      Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                      @PainPhysiosCan
                      WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                      @WCPTPTPN
                      Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                      @dfjpt
                      SomaSimple on Facebook
                      @somasimple

                      "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                      “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                      “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                      "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                      "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        ...not only hypnotised people, but those who have had the "stick pointed at them". They can die within 30 hours from system shutdown, which is far too rapid for anyone to say that they starved or dehydrated to death.
                        Central mechanisms and beliefs are very powerful.

                        Nari

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          If it comes from inside it's from metabolism
                          Diane,

                          I think there is a difference between heat (an energy) and warmth/burning (a perception).

                          Luke
                          Luke Rickards
                          Osteopath

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            I think there is a difference between heat (an energy) and warmth/burning (a perception).
                            Yes I agree.. I thought I covered that. No?

                            Anyone else here ever eaten jalpeno peppers? There is something that will link the taste receptors and the sympathetics and heat output mechanisms..
                            Last edited by Diane; 26-05-2006, 05:55 AM.
                            Diane
                            www.dermoneuromodulation.com
                            SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
                            HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
                            Neurotonics PT Teamblog
                            Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
                            Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
                            @PainPhysiosCan
                            WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
                            @WCPTPTPN
                            Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

                            @dfjpt
                            SomaSimple on Facebook
                            @somasimple

                            "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

                            “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

                            “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

                            "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

                            "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              I should have included this part.
                              In other words, warming comes from inside or outside
                              The way I see it, heat comes from the inside or outside. Warming always comes from the inside.

                              Though I know we are concerned with both.

                              Luke
                              Last edited by Luke Rickards; 26-05-2006, 07:43 AM.
                              Luke Rickards
                              Osteopath

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Diane,

                                I've heard it said that the ingestion of spicy food is more popular in southern climates (that's northern for the Aussies here) because they make you sweat and thus lead to a general cooling of the body. This would explain the blandness of the food in Minnesota, the northern US state that I've spent this week in.

                                I can't help but wonder if there's some sort of correlation between the food and the climate and the consequent general behavior of the people in the culture. I read a book titled "Scandinavian Humor and Other Myths" years ago and can't help but remember it as half of my funniest lines fall completely flat here where so many Norwegians and Swedes and others settled a long time ago.

                                The therapists here are stoic as is to be expected, but the incidence of chronic discomfort among them seems no less (about 50%). They just don't say much, express much nonverbally or make any real effort to connect in ways I am used to. (not everybody) Not that I personally do much of this stuff myself. Maybe I should move here. Maybe my hard-earned parasympathetic dominance leads me toward the same sort of comfort with quietude. Maybe imposed quiet upon a system raging sympathetically is especially painful.

                                In other words, don't eat jalapenos in Duluth - you might explode.
                                Barrett L. Dorko

                                Comment

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