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  • #46
    I provide treatment gowns, ask people to leave underwear (including bra) on. I prefer bras be the kind that can undo at the back, in case I need to loosen it to get at some dorsal ramus (if one is giving them grief it is usually the one being dug on by the bra strap). People are kept well covered at all times. I happen to be of the opinion that warm nervous systems are more easily made friends with if kept warm.
    Diane
    www.dermoneuromodulation.com
    SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
    HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
    Neurotonics PT Teamblog
    Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
    Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
    @PainPhysiosCan
    WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
    @WCPTPTPN
    Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

    @dfjpt
    SomaSimple on Facebook
    @somasimple

    "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

    “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

    “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

    "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

    "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

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    • #47
      People are kept well covered at all times. I happen to be of the opinion that warm nervous systems are more easily made friends with if kept warm.
      Yes. I am a big fan of table warmers and fuzzy blankets and towels kept in the crockpot to warm icy cold feet.

      It's all about good customer service. It's all about what I know about skin anatomy and that Big Fuzzball.
      Carol Lynn Chevrier LMT
      " The truth is, people may see things differently. But they don't really want to. '' Don Draper.

      Comment


      • #48
        Yeah, I decided to spring for a heater inside my most recent treatment table.
        Diane
        www.dermoneuromodulation.com
        SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
        HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
        Neurotonics PT Teamblog
        Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
        Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
        @PainPhysiosCan
        WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
        @WCPTPTPN
        Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

        @dfjpt
        SomaSimple on Facebook
        @somasimple

        "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

        “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

        “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

        "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

        "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

        Comment


        • #49
          Must be tricky at times for you guys in very chilly countries!! At present I'd give anything to be back in 6 degreesC -as in Norway!!!!

          Nari

          Comment


          • #50
            Yes, I hear Aus is burning up. Fires are converging into one big one. :sad:
            Diane
            www.dermoneuromodulation.com
            SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
            HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
            Neurotonics PT Teamblog
            Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
            Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page
            @PainPhysiosCan
            WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook
            @WCPTPTPN
            Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

            @dfjpt
            SomaSimple on Facebook
            @somasimple

            "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

            “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

            “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

            "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

            "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Matthew Danziger View Post
              Rajam, Carol Lynn, and others who practice in a massage setting:

              Given that Simple Contact is intended to create a context for the expression of ideomotion, I am curious to hear how you manage things like draping and the removal (or lack of removal) of clothing. I suspect that I would be very hesitant to move as freely as I can if there were a fear of loss of modesty in the process.

              As someone who is likely not adept at this work (and still haven't seen any other response to my question for Barrett or anyone else who may be able to clarify, in post #18) I can provide some minimal insight on draping, for what it is worth.

              In the past I have used SC prior to a massage session (client fully clothed and in a sitting position), and also within the massage session (handeling the head).

              And, I certainly have nothing against the idea of a sports bra and bikini bottoms, underware or whatever else may be comfortable for the client.

              For the most part, massage draping methods vary from practitioner to practitioner and may be changed depending on how the therapist is trying to work. Draping methods can be taut or loose with a sheet, because there is a lot of matierial to work with. There are a few ways to keep the sheets tucked, so that the client feels freedom and safety. Below is an example.

              While the client is supine (in order to remove fear of loss of modesty and allow for freedom):

              - Sheets can be held in place while allowing for movement, by simply not tucking in tight and close to the body but instead by taking a section of material a little further from the body and tucking it up under the hips and along the upper back. This allows for modesty and client freedom, but not having so loose a drape that that could be waved in the wind.

              - Additionally, one could allow for the clients arms to be on top of the working sheet (lowest top layer) but under the blanket (uppermost top layer).



              I did have one client in the past who began idiomotion on her own when I was holding her head at the base of the occiput, a while after I had begun to read about SC, and I only had her loosely draped (think: client supine, under sheet and blanket, no tucking). Her head moved all about and I followed it, as she moved, I tucked the sheet under her shoulder - multi-tasking on my part, but she never lost the sheet was never moved much.)

              Hope this helps.
              Last edited by Curious One; 21-01-2014, 07:08 PM. Reason: - add sentences / correct spelling.
              C.O. ( gender: ) - LMT, BS(Anatomy), DC
              Music Fog... pick a song to listen to... you can't go wrong.
              Need relaxation samples for your office? I have made a Deep Relaxation Massage Music Pandora Station and have others that may also be useful - about 8 massage music stations and about 49 other nifty options.

              Comment


              • #52
                Loose draping, undergarments, and contact through the sheet are helpful to understand the process. Perhaps there's a self-selecting process in that people going for massage are comfortable enough to be undressed in front of the practitioner, otherwise they wouldn't go.

                To the best of my understanding the goal of SC is instinctive correction through expression. It seems to me that depending on the person, some are more or less themselves depending on do or don't wear. Maybe this is sweating the small stuff.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Matthew Danziger View Post
                  Loose draping, undergarments, and contact through the sheet are helpful to understand the process. Perhaps there's a self-selecting process in that people going for massage are comfortable enough to be undressed in front of the practitioner, otherwise they wouldn't go.

                  To the best of my understanding the goal of SC is instinctive correction through expression. It seems to me that depending on the person, some are more or less themselves depending on do or don't wear. Maybe this is sweating the small stuff.

                  Matthew, by your description of the "undressing" process, it sounds like you may have never had a professional bodywork session with a massage therapist who is competent in the draping process. But, please don't hesitate to correct me if I am wrong.

                  Client comfort is of utmost importance. We also don't ask clients to be in a state of undress in front of us, but they may remove some garments while we are out of the room. After which, they then proceed to recline on the table and under the drape provided, before we return to the room.
                  Correction: as I see you are a MT student as of 2013 (via your website).

                  I do believe that each person will have a distinct comfort level. But, via the videos I have seen of Barrett teaching, I don't see that the client being unclothed/minimally clothed and draped is extremely important in the process. It appears that they do just fine with clothing on.

                  I think the reason massage therapists will talk about draping in general, is because this is usually a large portion of our practice. We're working not only with the client, but also with the skin, tissues and likely using a lubricant to move across the skin, so as not to cause intense friction. However, sometimes one may opt to use the Dycem for traction, or may use a lotion instead of an oil, or jojoba instead of cream, more or less of the lubricant, etc. etc. - all depending on what is to be accomplished.

                  Many times people think of massage as just rubbing the body with something slick. This is not the case with a professional therapist.


                  Regarding more information on draping, in case it is helpful. It takes skill to drape and is a form of communication with the client. Keep in mind that the practitioner should be:
                  • Competent
                  • Smooth
                  • Quick
                  • Quiet
                  • Polished
                  • Neat/tidy
                  • Economical/simple
                  • Caring
                  • Confident
                  • Professional
                  Draping should also allow for the following elements:
                  • Drape with authority
                  • Drape with snug tucks
                  • Transition drapes on and off with proper flow
                  • Don’t allow drafty gaps
                  • Cover what needs to be covered
                  • Reveal what needs to be revealed
                  • Inspire confidence & comfort
                  • Consider client modesty
                  • Draping should not be clumsy or reveal the privates.
                  Here are some examples of draping methods (although they may or may not be useful for SC - I think that will depend on the client and the practitioner):
                  • Sheet & blanket drape.
                  • Heavy sheet (such as bamboo or flannel) / no blanket.
                  • Undrape the back AND the legs for clients who are hot natured; leaving the glutes draped when prone and the privates draped when supine.
                  • Undrape the back and one leg leaving the gluteal cleft and opposite glute covered – for complete long strokes (full leg thru full arm). Pull the sheet up a little further on the opposite worked side of the back for better client comfort.
                  • Tuck sheets under a client, or reposition the client properly in order to do so, for more security.
                  • Use diaper draping if client seems uncomfortable with general/looser draping.
                  Hope this gives you a little more to work with regarding draping.
                  Last edited by Curious One; 21-01-2014, 07:57 PM. Reason: - I had to remove a few too many commas. Correction to content RE: MD being in 2013 massage school.
                  C.O. ( gender: ) - LMT, BS(Anatomy), DC
                  Music Fog... pick a song to listen to... you can't go wrong.
                  Need relaxation samples for your office? I have made a Deep Relaxation Massage Music Pandora Station and have others that may also be useful - about 8 massage music stations and about 49 other nifty options.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Curious One: My statement about level of dress versus undress had to do with my informed assumption that regardless of context that many people are uncomfortable exposing any part of their body to others. I understand that proper draping minimizes this discomfort for those who seek manual care, hence my comment on self-selection.

                    Certainly confidence and competency with a wide variety of draping techniques for each situation is warranted and I appreciate your taking the time to outline applications and variations.

                    Perhaps it is my lack of competency with draping that informs my view, but I still feel that any state of undress to someone lacking comfort with their body could negatively influence their ability to express themselves through movement. With areas like the head and neck this may be less restrictive due to the nature of the body part's ability to move, but it has been my experience with SC that people can roll and shift quite dramatically regardless of their starting position. I am especially reminded of SS's own Erik (Electerik) great propensity for broad movements which made me briefly worry about his falling over even from standing. In a pinch, he always could have grabbed onto Barrett's tie.

                    I expect this is something I'll be exploring a good deal more in the future.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I expect this is something I'll be exploring a good deal more in the future.
                      My tie?

                      All I ever remove are the shoes, and I feel for the massage therapists whose clients expect something else.
                      Barrett L. Dorko

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I had no idea that going for a massage was so complex in preparation. In hindsight, it would be quite obvious for clients to feel 'safe'.

                        But for Simple Contact, there is no need to touch skin. The response is best, probably, on a bony bit such as the forehead but not essential.

                        Nari

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Barrett Dorko View Post
                          My tie?

                          All I ever remove are the shoes, and I feel for the massage therapists whose clients expect something else.
                          You had mentioned something like when patients are concerned about their balance you tell them they can grab onto you for support as long as it's not your tie.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Matthew Danziger View Post
                            Perhaps it is my lack of competency with draping that informs my view, but I still feel that any state of undress to someone lacking comfort with their body could negatively influence their ability to express themselves through movement. With areas like the head and neck this may be less restrictive due to the nature of the body part's ability to move, but it has been my experience with SC that people can roll and shift quite dramatically regardless of their starting position. I am especially reminded of SS's own Erik (Electerik) great propensity for broad movements which made me briefly worry about his falling over even from standing.

                            Obviously you have had the opportunity to take a class. Fortunate you are. I just have read about it and tried my best. The only reason I tried to clarify my posting was because you asked about draping. I didn't mean for it to sound degrading and hope it was not offensive.

                            Thank you for the insight. It makes perfect sense.

                            Originally posted by nari View Post
                            I had no idea that going for a massage was so complex in preparation. In hindsight, it would be quite obvious for clients to feel 'safe'.

                            But for Simple Contact, there is no need to touch skin. The response is best, probably, on a bony bit such as the forehead but not essential.

                            Nari
                            Honestly, it's not that complex of a process, only that all of the aforementioned elements are usually addressed. Sort of like a musician. He plays a guitar, it looks easy, but there are a lot of elements that have to occur for it to appear smooth and a real tune to emerge. But, when the song is played, it all happens quite quickly and without effort.

                            Nari, I really appreciate the quality of your posts around SC as I have been reading. Each bit has been helpful to me and I want you to know that. Thank you.
                            C.O. ( gender: ) - LMT, BS(Anatomy), DC
                            Music Fog... pick a song to listen to... you can't go wrong.
                            Need relaxation samples for your office? I have made a Deep Relaxation Massage Music Pandora Station and have others that may also be useful - about 8 massage music stations and about 49 other nifty options.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Yes, I met both Nari and Matthew at classes, about 3000 miles apart, but both of them on an island.

                              Both know that the clothing becomes the peripersonal space and that without actually handling the skin the brain is affected. No draping is required.
                              Barrett L. Dorko

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