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| Clinical Reasoning Typical cases are discussed there. The cases are brought by practioners. |
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#1 | |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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Let's get serious about this. A very nice breadcrumb trail exists, right in our own profession, and I want to fan it.
Check out the following: 1. Amanda M. Hall*, Paulo H. Ferreira, Christopher G. Maher, Jane Latimer and Manuela L. Ferreira; The Influence of the Therapist-Patient Relationship on Treatment Outcome in Physical Rehabilitation: A Systematic Review. Physical Therapy August 2010 vol. 90 no. 8 1099-1110 Full access. 2. Maxi Miciak BScPT (PhD Student)**, Douglas P. Gross PhD (Associate Professor), Anthony Joyce PhD (Professor); A review of the psychotherapeutic ‘common factors’ model and its application in physical therapy: the need to consider general effects in physical therapy practice. Scandinavian Journal of Caring Sciences Volume 26, Issue 2, pages 394–403, June 2012 Quote:
References from the poster presentation: Frank J D, Frank J B. Persuasion and healing: A comparative study of psychotherapy. Baltimore, MD: Johns Hopkins
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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| The Following User Says Thank You to Diane For This Useful Post: | rex08 (01-12-2012) |
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#2 |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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I blogged about Miciak, recently: Deep versus shallow models of treatment
She saw the post and came by to make a comment.
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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Senior Member
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Diane,
The longer I practice (15 years of uninterupted clinical care ONLY...as in no administrative side bars), the more patients I see (average 15 per day)...the more convinced I am that the profession is going to have to wrap it's head around these issues. We have to work within these realities not avoid them. Frankly, I think it's the way forward and I feel good quality Phyiotherapy care (better than the current out-dated biomechanical model) exists within these realities. |
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| The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to proud For This Useful Post: | BB (03-11-2012), Born Aliased (12-03-2013), Diane (03-11-2012), ian s (03-11-2012), nari (04-11-2012) |
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#4 |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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I agree, proud. It's what happens anyway. All the science points right at this. All the inconclusive, poor inter-rater reliability testing, all the pain science, everything. I would like the profession to catch up to the reality, reframe itself just a bit. To itself, at least. To the students that enter it. "We help people. We help their nervous systems. Here's how."
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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| The Following User Says Thank You to Diane For This Useful Post: | Kyle Ridgeway (05-03-2013) |
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#5 | |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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Here is a nice little news item about exercise and knee osteoarthritis. Factors impacting benefit of exercise in knee OA identified.
It discusses this paper: Associations for change in physical and psychological factors and treatment response following exercise in knee osteoarthritis: An exploratory study Quote:
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#6 |
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Senior Moment
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I like the weekends. I come here. I see new papers. I go to work on Monday with a little skip in my step. Thank you
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"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." ("Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen.“) Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus Ludwig Wittgenstein Question your tea spoons. Georges Perec |
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#7 |
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Senior Member
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Me too. Thumbs up!
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Swaying against the breeze
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Yup, it's like a gas station for the mind!
__________________
Frédéric Wellens, pht «We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.» «Those who cannot understand how to put their thoughts on ice should not enter into the heat of debate. » Friedrich Nietzsche www.physioaxis.ca chroniquesdedouleur blog |
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Junior Member
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#10 |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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Hi PCollinsDPT, welcome to SS. Check out the Welcome forum, start a thread there to introduce yourself.
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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The Therapeutic Alliance Between Clinicians and Patients Predicts Outcome in Chronic Low Back Pain
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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| The Following User Says Thank You to Diane For This Useful Post: | Kyle Ridgeway (10-11-2012) |
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#12 |
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Senior Member
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Who would have known my deep-seeded love of psychology would help me as much as it does.
Honestly I didn't when I began to pursue this career path. I find there is a constant (but lessening) battle of my natural instincts and those "things" that we're pounded into my head for years. I much rather perform instincts. |
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#13 | |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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This maybe should go into a different thread, but, considering that PTs are going to be licensed to do injecting, maybe here is fine: Expensive Arthritis Treatment No Better Than Steroid Therapy
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#14 |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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I'm putting this link to the video about sham knee surgery into this thread.
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#15 |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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Here is a write-up about the study.
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#16 |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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Here is the actual study. A Controlled Trial of Arthroscopic Surgery for Osteoarthritis of the Knee, sent to me on Twitter by painfreeindia.
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#17 | |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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This looks good: Patient-centered interviewing is associated with decreased responses to painful stimuli: An initial fMRI study
File under, "Yeah... we could have predicted that.." ![]() Quote:
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#18 |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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Check this out: Empathy Soothes Patients’ Pain, from Pain-Topics.org
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#19 |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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What a great interview: Dr. Abraham Verghese (nice Irish-sounding accent) at Stanford explains why he sees physical examination of a patient as a ritual, why he thinks that's exactly how a patient experiences it.
He steps back and looks at medical interaction as an anthropologist would - i.e., way more objectively. ![]()
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#20 | |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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Small excerpt from this fabulous 8 minute interview:
Quote:
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#21 |
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Swaying against the breeze
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Dr Verghese has so interesting things to say, so true. Just like his moving Ted talk, this interview highlights how I see my role and practice now.
One observation. Medical exams are generally more rare or spread apart in time than a typical PT encounter, where the initial assessment is usually followed by numerous treatments/follow ups. I think this sort of changes the ritual's power after sometime. I actually wonder after how long does the ritual looses most of its power. I think we have a window of opportunity to «make this transformation» after which, the ritual becomes somewhat diluted and then the «enchantement» kind of stops. And some patients are more easily enchanted than others.
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Frédéric Wellens, pht «We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.» «Those who cannot understand how to put their thoughts on ice should not enter into the heat of debate. » Friedrich Nietzsche www.physioaxis.ca chroniquesdedouleur blog |
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#22 |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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I agree.
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#23 |
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Great video Diane. A couple of points I found interesting in the interview were regarding garb. For the doctor he mentions that they wear a ceremonial garb that is a part of the experience of the ritual. What is our ceremonial garb? We don't have a universal garb that identifies us and I wonder if that takes from the experience. Finally, I found it interesting when he mentioned the patient removing their garb which in some cases is a uniform (i.e. police officer, military member etc.) In my experience depending on the person, they can have a hard time with not being in uniform. For example, a high ranking soldier cannot easily adjust to having no rank and becoming a patient. I find in these cases their is a sense of control that they must relinquish yet can't. I wonder if others have expereinced this?
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#24 |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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I would say, our PT ceremonial garb is less about what we're wearing (although polo shirts are quite popular, guys at least..)
..and more about the Can-Do attitude we are encouraged to cultivate, even though we are not taught anything even remotely understandable in terms of an explanatory model for what we do and think we can do. In fact if that attitude isn't kept visible, we are flunked out of PT school, some of us. (Which nearly happened to me, 40-odd years ago, although it didn't, quite.) Other things: PTs in hospitals at least, like to wear stethoscopes.. PTs carry stuff around - pens, things for patients to squeeze, whatever. But the biggest bunch of ritual equipment is not portable - it's the big bright coloured mess of exercise equipment and play tools and theraband and balls, etc., kept in plain sight in the departments, along with the machines that ping and beep. It's the cold treatment tables, with changes of sheets if we're lucky, and curtains that zip around them to make a not-very private "stall". What secrets could you possibly have that the world shouldn't know about? What sort of gossip going on next door should you not be interested in following? What? You want private time with a therapist? Well, you'll have to go down the street and pay big bucks out of your pocket to that odd-ball therapist who only sees people one at a time and insists on rooms with doors that close, and no drafts, and no noise, and lights that can be lowered. Sheesh. She's weird.
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#25 | |
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I suspect it contributes to why PT's within hospital settings who bargain for contracts end up the lowest paid health professionals.... We almost refuse to see ourselves as professionals. I think most PT's know they are living a lie (in terms of having an explanatory model they can defend) that they recognize....they would struggle to prove to anyone that they indeed are professionals... Thus the need to appease everyone with that "can-do attitude" And yes...the bells and whistles are the PT's ceremonial garb. If you don't use IFC or ultrasound, gouge someone with a metal instrument, use theraband or some other "strength" device and suddenly you're the weirdo.... Last edited by proud; 08-01-2013 at 11:57 PM. |
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Many times a colleague (DC) who doesn't know how I run my office learns that I have all the same as you described above, with the main thing being the lowered lights, they look at me as if I've gone batty. *ha* Somehow, it's nice to know I'm not the only one dealing with this attitude amongst peers.
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#27 |
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There is nothing I hate more, CO, than being horizontal on a table of some kind, be it at a gym or in someone's office being examined, and having bright lights overhead. There is no need for them, especially during manual therapy.
I also have a treatment table with a warmer in it. Call me crazy. I used it to full effect today, with a new patient who is stressed out because she has Crohn's disease (in remission at the moment), in the course of being treated became addicted to prescribed painkillers, is withdrawing from them, also has a new baby, had to go on disability from a teaching job, has a bunch of new neck, headache and shoulder pain because she's got financial stress and is working in a restaurant. Oh, and she's always cold. The lights were turned down low while we mopped up her pain perception of headache, neck pain etc. Worked very well in fact, reducing noxious input, turning nociception to yesiception..
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#28 |
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Here is another link, posted by Carol on FB, A Touch Of Sense by Abraham Varghese from 2009.
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#29 |
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What health professionals wear is probably a sort of cultural thing.
Here, wearing a tie for guys would be unthinkable and laughable; the reason being that we have to feel comfortable, not threaten patients with formal clothes (docs are different!) and get physical. ![]() Women used to wear polo shirts emblazoned with our physio symbol, but now they wear standard street clothes. Stethoscopes are standard for the wards but not anywhere else. A ritual is always something that alarms me - it smacks of stereotyping, so I always avoided saying the same words in greeting a patient by changing when and how I said them. I often didn't mention my name because it is unusual and they often forgot it anyway; it came later. Oh and the toys!! The obligatory theraband, the modality request, hot packs, cold packs and zillions of standardised exercises to strengthen something or the other, the exercycle, the ship's wheel for painful shoulders........ Nari |
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#30 | |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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advantage1 wrote:
Quote:
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#31 | |
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NeuroMinded|Clinician Skeptical|Science|Blogger
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#32 |
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Although I am sure they are some who wear them because they feel important or professional when doing so.
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NeuroMinded|Clinician Skeptical|Science|Blogger
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The Therapeutic Alliance Between Clinicians and Patients Predicts Outcome in Chronic Low Back Pain
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#34 |
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The Therapeutic Alliance Between Clinicians and Patients Predicts Outcome in Chronic Low Back Pain
Abstract Background The impact of the relationship (therapeutic alliance) between patients and physical therapists on treatment outcome in the rehabilitation of chronic low back pain (LBP) has not been previously investigated. Objective To investigate whether the therapeutic alliance between physical therapists and chronic LBP patients predicts clinical outcomes. Design Retrospective observational study nested within a randomized controlled trial. Methods 182 patients with chronic LBP who volunteered for a randomized controlled trial that compared the efficacy of exercises and spinal manipulative therapy rated their alliance with physical therapists by completing the Working Alliance Inventory at the second treatment session. The primary outcomes of function, global perceived effect of treatment, pain, and disability were assessed before and after 8 weeks of treatment. Linear regression models were used to investigate if the alliance was a predictor of outcome or moderated the effect of treatment. Results The therapeutic alliance was consistently a predictor of outcome for all the measures of treatment outcome. The therapeutic alliance moderated the effect of treatment on global perceived effect for two of three treatment contrasts (general exercise vs motor control exercise, spinal manipulative therapy vs motor control exercise). There was no treatment effect modification when outcome was measured with function, pain and disability measures. Limitations Therapeutic alliance was measured at the second treatment session and it is likely to bias the interaction during initial stages of treatment. Data analysis was restricted to primary outcomes at 8 weeks. Conclusions Positive therapeutic alliance ratings between physical therapists and patients are associated with improvements of outcomes in LBP. Future research should investigate the factors explaining this relationship and the impact of training interventions aimed at optimizing the alliance.
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#35 |
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This is an area I in which I struggle and appreciate Dianes ideas greatly. We have worked on keeping treatment tables more warm and I'm less likely to treat my patients in supine and prone.
That being said, old habits and rituals are difficult to break. I'm slowly evolving but its progress.
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#36 |
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Diane,
To clarify my point regarding removing clothes, I didn't mean that soldiers have a hard time removing their clotihing. What I meant was there are some people who wear uniforms and have an occupation that gives them authoity that can't allow themselves to be in a position of being a patient. In the interview he discusses how the removal of clothing and the doctor placing their hands on the patient is a large part of the ritual. However, someone such as a CEO or General cannot allow themselves to easily let go and turn off their authoratative pesona. I know I've treated high ranking military members who squirm and resist having someone question them and advise them what to do. |
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#37 |
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For sure, no argument from me, really.. If you follow KevinMD.com, a group blog by doctors who are trying to change the rituals the medical profession and the system that has evolved to contain it, enact, like robots, you'll find some great stories. One (from there, I'm pretty sure, don't have time to hunt it down just now) involved a medical director who had a nasty experience as a patient. He turned up at a board meeting wearing nothing but a hospital gown flapping open at the back, and successfully shocked everyone present into softening up toward his ideas about treating patients with more dignity and respect. Great use of clothing (inverse "ceremonial garb") to make people aware of ritual, I thought.
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#38 |
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I work in a busy outpatient enviroment in a hospital, with stalls, and you are likely to hear everything from children screaming, telephone's going off, multiple languages being spoken through interpreters, dogs barking--it can be literally a zoo at my work.
I am working to push for change, noise reduction curtians etc. Doing what I can. One thing that just came to me was this. Over on this thread What do you want to become? There is plenty of discussion re: distraction and the manipulation of attention. I think these lessons are crtical about how we can shape the context despite being in a less ideal enviroment. What I try to do at my work, is mostly shield the pt. I try to find the most quite space to work in I can, I dim lights when I can, cover the pt.s eyes, and I try to keep their attention focused on me and on themselves. Generally this works most times. I watch people's eyes to see where they go. Today, I caught my patient glancing at the curtain where it opens and realzied that it had inadvertenly opened a little bit. I immediatley closed it. Probably a small thing yet this kind of mind reading is imperative to the patient/therapist relationship. I wish my work permitted me to be as werid as wanted to be. Right now it is just the price I pay to treat the kind of pt.s I want to treat. Is their any threads, journal articles, or other resources that discuss design esthetics i.e. geometery of space and its effect on the mind? I am really interested in this. I think it is very related. I watched this show Urbanized, within it they talked about how European squares (mostly) all were designed around specific dimensions. These dimensions allowed the person in the square to frame their enviroment so they could see everything around them. That when a space got to big, like many modern (North American) squares, people stopped accessing them because of a natural percived threat due to our visual systems inability to frame the entire picture and therefore be at esthetic ease. I think this is essentially what feng shui is sans the mumbo jumbo. I would love to know if anyone has any other insights on this with specific relation to health care. Eric Eric
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Body is imbued with mind, and mind is embodied. I know that I effect, but I know not how I affect. "Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding.”–Kahlil Gibran (1883–1931). The Prophet. |
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I purchased this book a few years back and enjoyed a few chapters, before leaving at my in laws house. It discusses how physical space impacts healing.
http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Spaces.../dp/0674057481 Last edited by Elanchaim; 10-01-2013 at 03:07 AM. Reason: typo |
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#40 |
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Eric,
There is a thread titled The Perfect Clinic that may be what you are looking for...I would link it but am on a tablet and it is a bit laborious. Sorry. Respectfully, Keith |
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#41 | |
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From this thread: Physiotherapists' knowledge, attitudes, and intolerance of uncertainty influence decision making in low back pain.
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__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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im sure ive observed this from the bigwigs that come to our clinic (minus leather straps and whips) |
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This assuredly belongs here: The Placebo Phenomenon
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Body is imbued with mind, and mind is embodied. I know that I effect, but I know not how I affect. "Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding.”–Kahlil Gibran (1883–1931). The Prophet. |
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Carol Lynn Chevrier LMT "Beaucoup d'entre nous mourront ainsi sans jamais être nés à leur humanité, ayant confiné leurs systèmes associatifs à l'innovation marchande, en couvrant de mots la nudité simpliste de leur inconscient dominateur." Henri Laborit - 1914-1995 . |
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#46 | |
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__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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In light of what I'm learning about placebo effects and rituals, I'm having a hard time knowing where to draw the line between giving the patient a realistic expectation and flat-out lying to them.
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I've never really felt confident in any of the mechanical-based exercise or manual therapies that I've learned. I used to think that this was because I wasn't good enough at the technique, or I didn't understand the rationale thoroughly enough. I'm only now coming to realize that I understand the rationale just fine, it just doesn't make sense to me. I think my lack of confidence has probably shown through to patients (I'm not a very good actor), and that obviously isn't ideal. But even now that I'm starting to use more interactive treatment techniques, I feel like I can't truly be "confident" that my treatments will "work" until I've seen the results over an extended period of time. Until then, am I supposed to pretend? Later, if the treatment hasn't helped, how do I explain my confidence to the patient? Quote:
When I talk to other PTs I know, most of the time they sound very confident in their methods and, according to them, get great results. I feel like I'm not as confident as other PTs - but I keep coming back to "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one." I guess what I'm asking is: Is it ethical to bend the truth? How far? Is it risky to be too honest? Is it right for therapists to be actors? This is an issue that has been bothering me for a while. I'd appreciate any thoughts on the matter.
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#48 | |
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The placebo effect is present in every medical intervention
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__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#49 |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#50 |
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Avoiding to tell some facts while concentrating on others is not a lie!
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Frédéric Wellens, pht «We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.» «Those who cannot understand how to put their thoughts on ice should not enter into the heat of debate. » Friedrich Nietzsche www.physioaxis.ca chroniquesdedouleur blog |
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