Injections of the mind.

flyingbanana · 26-04-2012, 11:03 PM

Hi,
I am a British anaesthetist who enjoys doing injections. I started doing chronic pain as a trainee in 1991 and was shown how to do facet injections by a very competent boss. The following week he was away and he left me to do these injections. After he had seen the patients eight weeks later he told me that my results had been better than his.

Not long after my head expanded with pride I realised that I couldn't have injected more accurately than he had, so something else was happening as well as the physical injection.

After 21 years of searching I am now convinced that the patients in 1991 had responded to the eager, enthusiastic and rather over-confident young doctor and not the injection itself. I could have been rubbing on snake oil and it would have worked just as well, provided the patient believed in it.

So now I avoid doing injections as I believe that better methods of chronic pain management are possible. I work in a team who are far better at these methods than I. Nevertheless I still hold the Shamanic role offered by Western society to medical doctors so I use my role to support my colleagues. Occasionally I also do physical medicine by picking up a medical diagnosis, but not very often.
FB

ian s · 26-04-2012, 11:25 PM

Flying, that is a very noble and honest take on your role. I work with Drs who take the opposite tack . Inject if that doesn't work , use acupuncture for 6 weeks if that doesn't work hope that some psych/social counselling may 'inject the mind'.....
I hope to go to the philosophy and ethics group of the pain society meeting- an altogether more nuanced, thoughtful approach and group of people. You might be interested in this group?

ian

**Diane** · 26-04-2012, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingbanana

Hi,
I am a British anaesthetist who enjoys doing injections. I started doing chronic pain as a trainee in 1991 and was shown how to do facet injections by a very competent boss. The following week he was away and he left me to do these injections. After he had seen the patients eight weeks later he told me that my results had been better than his.

Not long after my head expanded with pride I realised that I couldn't have injected more accurately than he had, so something else was happening as well as the physical injection.

After 21 years of searching I am now convinced that the patients in 1991 had responded to the eager, enthusiastic and rather over-confident young doctor and not the injection itself. I could have been rubbing on snake oil and it would have worked just as well, provided the patient believed in it.

So now I avoid doing injections as I believe that better methods of chronic pain management are possible. I work in a team who are far better at these methods than I. Nevertheless I still hold the Shamanic role offered by Western society to medical doctors so I use my role to support my colleagues. Occasionally I also do physical medicine by picking up a medical diagnosis, but not very often.
FB

Hi FB,
Thank you for that burst of fresh air!
Welcome to SomaSimple.

**byronselorme** · 27-04-2012, 02:22 AM

FB, I can only imagine the difficulty faced with being in the position you are in and discovering what you have discovered.

There is a an incredible gravitational pull in the opposite direction you are moving / have moved. Patrick Wall comes to mind.

joebrence9 · 27-04-2012, 03:40 AM

Welcome FB...Whats the story behind the screen-name?

Greg Lehman · 27-04-2012, 04:48 AM

OH NO! Where do i now send my patients when conservative care has failed?

Thanks for this insight banana.

Greg

**Diane** · 27-04-2012, 05:00 AM

It just occurred to me that there may be others like FB who came to the same conclusion, which might be why the Wonderful World of Injecting is opening up to PT.
We've always been the medical world's walking talking smiling cheering on placebo elicitors/accompany-ers for all the patients who no one else takes time for anymore. Why not let PTs inject? What's the harm? They already do that dry needling stuff so they can probably handle needles in general, right? [/brrrrr]

**Barrett Dorko** · 27-04-2012, 01:04 PM

Welcome FB.

Sounds like you might be DOA.

**Bas Asselbergs** · 27-04-2012, 01:09 PM

Welcome banana! Good to see you here.
Thanks for the intro. The move away from interventional care to interactive care for pain patients is different for all of us, and yours is certainly an interesting one as well.

**ste5e** · 27-04-2012, 01:50 PM

Hi FB and welcome to the community. I look forward to finding out even more about you.

Kind thoughts,
Steve

26-04-2012, 11:03 PM	#1
flyingbanana Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Injections of the mind. Hi, I am a British anaesthetist who enjoys doing injections. I started doing chronic pain as a trainee in 1991 and was shown how to do facet injections by a very competent boss. The following week he was away and he left me to do these injections. After he had seen the patients eight weeks later he told me that my results had been better than his. Not long after my head expanded with pride I realised that I couldn't have injected more accurately than he had, so something else was happening as well as the physical injection. After 21 years of searching I am now convinced that the patients in 1991 had responded to the eager, enthusiastic and rather over-confident young doctor and not the injection itself. I could have been rubbing on snake oil and it would have worked just as well, provided the patient believed in it. So now I avoid doing injections as I believe that better methods of chronic pain management are possible. I work in a team who are far better at these methods than I. Nevertheless I still hold the Shamanic role offered by Western society to medical doctors so I use my role to support my colleagues. Occasionally I also do physical medicine by picking up a medical diagnosis, but not very often. FB

26-04-2012, 11:25 PM	#2
ian s Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: dunblane , scotland uk Age: 50 Posts: 745 Thanks: 290 Thanked 225 Times in 100 Posts	injections of the mind ... Flying, that is a very noble and honest take on your role. I work with Drs who take the opposite tack . Inject if that doesn't work , use acupuncture for 6 weeks if that doesn't work hope that some psych/social counselling may 'inject the mind'..... I hope to go to the philosophy and ethics group of the pain society meeting- an altogether more nuanced, thoughtful approach and group of people. You might be interested in this group? ian

27-04-2012, 02:22 AM	#4
byronselorme Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Hamilton, Ontario Age: 39 Posts: 1,367 Thanks: 726 Thanked 280 Times in 152 Posts	FB, I can only imagine the difficulty faced with being in the position you are in and discovering what you have discovered. There is a an incredible gravitational pull in the opposite direction you are moving / have moved. Patrick Wall comes to mind. __________________ Byron Selorme - Science Based Yoga Educator Shavasana Yoga Center "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" Richard Feynman

27-04-2012, 03:40 AM	#5
joebrence9 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 435 Thanks: 149 Thanked 229 Times in 104 Posts	Welcome FB...Whats the story behind the screen-name? __________________ Joseph Brence, DPT "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein Blog: www.forwardthinkingpt.com

27-04-2012, 04:48 AM	#6
Greg Lehman Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Toronto Posts: 270 Thanks: 76 Thanked 146 Times in 53 Posts	OH NO! Where do i now send my patients when conservative care has failed? Thanks for this insight banana. Greg __________________ Greg Lehman BKin, MSc, DC, MScPT (my path of inefficiency) No letters allowed learned on weekends. Physiotherapist Chiropractor

27-04-2012, 05:00 AM	#7
Diane Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Weyburn Sask. Posts: 19,676 Thanks: 1,490 Thanked 3,196 Times in 1,571 Posts	It just occurred to me that there may be others like FB who came to the same conclusion, which might be why the Wonderful World of Injecting is opening up to PT. We've always been the medical world's walking talking smiling cheering on placebo elicitors/accompany-ers for all the patients who no one else takes time for anymore. Why not let PTs inject? What's the harm? They already do that dry needling stuff so they can probably handle needles in general, right? [/brrrrr] __________________ Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

27-04-2012, 01:04 PM	#8
Barrett Dorko Writer and Clinician Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio Age: 61 Posts: 12,676 Thanks: 613 Thanked 1,485 Times in 870 Posts	Welcome FB. Sounds like you might be DOA. __________________ Barrett L. Dorko P.T. www.barrettdorko.com

27-04-2012, 01:09 PM	#9
Bas Asselbergs Physiotherapist Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canada Age: 61 Posts: 3,695 Thanks: 841 Thanked 484 Times in 233 Posts	Welcome banana! Good to see you here. Thanks for the intro. The move away from interventional care to interactive care for pain patients is different for all of us, and yours is certainly an interesting one as well. __________________ We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are - Anais Nin Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley

27-04-2012, 01:50 PM	#10
ste5e SomaSimpler Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Harrogate UK Age: 45 Posts: 433 Thanks: 267 Thanked 262 Times in 117 Posts	Hi FB and welcome to the community. I look forward to finding out even more about you. Kind thoughts, Steve __________________ Peering over the shoulders of giants. Know pain. Know gain.

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