Acupuncture 100 times more effective...

**AdamB** · 26-04-2012, 03:42 PM

Sigh.

(PAP in Danish means cardboard...)
That's exactly the stuff that this study is made of.
Pour water (/science) on it and it dissolves in a sticky mess.

**Diane** · 26-04-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamB

Sigh.

(PAP in Danish means cardboard...)
That's exactly the stuff that this study is made of.
Pour water (/science) on it and it dissolves in a sticky mess.

Yeah, I saw this too. It doesn't say exactly what tissue type was injected. Just some Poke-u-puncture point behind the knee. [/doublesigh]

Randy Dixon · 26-04-2012, 04:20 PM

Besides the reference to acupuncture do you have a problem with the study or what is being proposed?

If it is just another way to deliver anasthetics and is more effective and less intrusive than other means is that a problem?

Randy Dixon · 26-04-2012, 04:23 PM

Here is the article that I think is referenced by the study:
http://www.cell.com/neuron/retrieve/...96627308007502

Randy Dixon · 26-04-2012, 04:27 PM

I meant the study showing anti-nociceptive properties of the chemical. The actual study seems to be this:
http://www.molecularpain.com/content...-8069-8-28.pdf

**ste5e** · 26-04-2012, 04:42 PM

I think you are right Randy. It looks like guilt by association. There seems to be a plausible mechanism for pain modification by chemical effect. It is just wrapping it around the acupuncture aspect that makes it unpalatable to me too. I was curious as to how they would have found out that acupuncture normally gives mice 1-2 hours of pain relief.
Kind thoughts,
Steve

**byronselorme** · 26-04-2012, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ste5e

I was curious as to how they would have found out that acupuncture normally gives mice 1-2 hours of pain relief.

Increased cheese intake.

**Diane** · 26-04-2012, 07:25 PM

Fewer observed quantifiable pain behaviours, like paw licking and tail flicking, or whatever it is they count as correlating to mouse pain.

26-04-2012, 03:42 PM	#1
AdamB SomaSimpler Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Falster, Denmark Age: 40 Posts: 202 Thanks: 422 Thanked 207 Times in 63 Posts	Acupuncture 100 times more effective... Sigh. (PAP in Danish means cardboard...) That's exactly the stuff that this study is made of. Pour water (/science) on it and it dissolves in a sticky mess. __________________ Adam Bjerre "We don't treat anatomy, we treat processes." D. Butler "When we wish to perfect our senses, neuroplasticity is a blessing; when it works in the service of pain, plasticity can be a curse." N. Doidge

26-04-2012, 04:42 PM	#6
ste5e SomaSimpler Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Harrogate UK Age: 45 Posts: 433 Thanks: 267 Thanked 262 Times in 117 Posts	I think you are right Randy. It looks like guilt by association. There seems to be a plausible mechanism for pain modification by chemical effect. It is just wrapping it around the acupuncture aspect that makes it unpalatable to me too. I was curious as to how they would have found out that acupuncture normally gives mice 1-2 hours of pain relief. Kind thoughts, Steve __________________ Peering over the shoulders of giants. Know pain. Know gain.

26-04-2012, 07:25 PM	#8
Diane Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Weyburn Sask. Posts: 19,673 Thanks: 1,489 Thanked 3,189 Times in 1,567 Posts	Fewer observed quantifiable pain behaviours, like paw licking and tail flicking, or whatever it is they count as correlating to mouse pain. __________________ Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

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26-04-2012, 04:20 PM	#3
Randy Dixon Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 548 Thanks: 5 Thanked 75 Times in 42 Posts	Besides the reference to acupuncture do you have a problem with the study or what is being proposed? If it is just another way to deliver anasthetics and is more effective and less intrusive than other means is that a problem?

26-04-2012, 04:23 PM	#4
Randy Dixon Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 548 Thanks: 5 Thanked 75 Times in 42 Posts	Here is the article that I think is referenced by the study: http://www.cell.com/neuron/retrieve/...96627308007502

26-04-2012, 04:27 PM	#5
Randy Dixon Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 548 Thanks: 5 Thanked 75 Times in 42 Posts	I meant the study showing anti-nociceptive properties of the chemical. The actual study seems to be this: http://www.molecularpain.com/content...-8069-8-28.pdf