biotensegrity

[nari]

For all of you who like big picture stuff, have a look at:


biotensegrity.com



Nari :idea:

[Diane]

Nari, I have loved Donald Ingber's stuff ever since I chanced upon his article "Architecture of Life" in Scientific American. It used to be downloadable, then suddenly it was one that had to be "bought". Great stuff, integrins, implications for cellular communication through mechanical stimulii. Not such a stretch to see nerve cells being affected by pull on them one way or another, sensitization ocurring etc.
It's easier to link to if you copy/paste the www also, as in www.biotensegrity.com
Cheers,
Diane

[nari]

Thanks for the link tip, Diane - I have no idea why I left off the www.

I do recall in our previous life with NOI, that you mentioned D Ingber.

I have an ongoing patient who I am sure is smitten with fascial ?matrix dysfunction. It is the only way I can reason why her left shoulder (primary source of pain, no injury) pain is perfectly reproducible with right hip ER and ER/ABD. Three reps of hip ER and the pain fades to nothing. Then it pops back days later. I "put" her on the NOI forum last year but nobody seemed to leap to the fore with "Eureka!"

Any recent work done on fascia as a culprit for pain, that you know of?


Nari

[Green Hornet]

Nari and Diane,
Thanks for the tip of hip assessment in relation with shouler. I always check the hip motions in patients with shoulder pain. But, I have not asked enough about pain or change in pain with hip motions. I will use that and see how it goes.

By the way, tensegrity is one of my favorite concepts. Thank you for posting the interesting link!

[Diane]

Hi All,
Nari, I know that Robert Schleip has some articles on his site www.somatics.de about fascial innervation. Lately there was an article about smooth muscle cells found throughout fascia. I will see if I can find the article. Skin is attached to underlying fascia by ligamentum cuti. Stretching the skin this way or that can exert a tug on fascia (you have to be slow and gentle) and you can get it to relax quite a bit, I think reflexively..

There is a way that the hip on one side exerts a check on the shoulder of the other side through fascial layers, and vice versa, the lumbodorsal fascia for one, the outer ab wall for two. Quite superficial too. (Can't wait for that dissection class, to see all this stuff in layers, for real.) Check out Anatomy Trains by Tom Myers, mentioned in the psoas thread. Also Schleip has a link to Myers from his site, I think. Or just google him..
Cheers,
Diane

[emad]

Hi all:
i remember that i have noticed one topic on NOI , about shoulde and hip relations of opposite sides !

If you are right Bernard , Latiss dorsi , it is more subjected of relatd motion -pain of the same side .
cheers
emad :lol:

[Diane]

Hi there,
I said I'd look for the fascial smooth muscle cell article. It was in this link, and WAS complimentary, but no longer is. (Was in volume 8 issue 2) Here is the link anyway, to the journal of bodywork and movement therapy:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/13608592

You may want to consider registering with them, you can get access to lots of free things. (Matthew originally clued me in to this link, thanks Matthew!)

Meanwhile, if anyone wants to read the article I did take a copy while it was complimentary and I can copy it to individuals who might be interested. I doubt I could post it here, as it would be considered "publishing" and would infringe on rights.
Diane

[bernard]

Diane,

In the same issue I found the Trager approach was interrogating?
http://www.trager-us.org/milton_trager.html

Nari,
By the way the biotensegrity concept is fully attractive. Do you think that our body uses similar conception?

[Diane]

According to Donald Ingber, life does. Cells avail themselves of this "technology" because of the efficient ratio of strength to material.
Diane

[bernard]

Diane,

Ok, why not?

I thought that our skin was like wet sand, supple when gentle touch and becoming harder with pressure which gives to it its resistance?

[Diane]

Hi Bernard,
Wet sand? Hmnn...doesn't fit for me.. I see the "supple when gentle touch and becoming harder with pressure which gives to it its resistance" thing that you do, but I see billions of tiny living one-celled creatures...

1. linked to each other by proteins they exude called 'integrins'. Ingber (or somebody) took skin tissue, put it in a high speed blender, knocked it apart into individual cells, took cells and put them on a petri dish, watched as they (individually) began to stretch around in an ameboid fashion, looking for contact. When these cells would find a fellow skin cell they would 'glue' back together again and re-form into a tissue! Cool eh?

2. linked into a nervous system allowing them to "accommodate" to slowly applied pressure or contact; I see them resisting when contacted hard or quick, because of their water content, not by volition.
Cheers,
Diane

[bernard]

Diane,

Of course, our body does not fit with my sand words :lol: . I used to propose only its strange property =>liquid (viscous) or solid (less viscous) depending of forces applied to it.

[nari]

I like the concept of sand behaviour and skin - wet sand, damp sand, nearly dry (dewy)sand all behave differently under the effect of water.

Wet sand moves almost as a unit, cohesive but verging on fluid. Skin does not get completely dry (not while we are still alive, anyway) and yet repels water so consistently. A good system.
If we walk on wet sand that has just the right amount of water still in it - it is soft, yet we do not sink; if we walk in sand underwater, it feel sdifferent - less 'pliable'.

Bernard, I haven't worked out the full meaning of tensegrity yet - with its ictahedrons (or whatever they are) so I can't answer your question yet. I
have been distracted by Diane's post on another thread re Vincenzio's work on manual therapy and pain....and its origins.

Nari

[Diane]

Nari and Bernard, I too am intrigued by water + cells:
1. The body as a large water column that can walk upright. Water is heavy. How does it do that?
2. Tissue thixotrophy, (that soft/ hard state depending on water influx)
3. Brownian ratchet theory, or how cells can live in a state of constant hurricane bombardment from all the water molecules pelting them from within and without constantly. (I'm sure that's why they evolved to "hold hands" with integrins.. because of the constant storm conditions. If they didn't stay connected to each other, we'd be just mere horizontal puddles oozing around... like mercury)

Considering these marvels has given me a lot of respect for cells, their lives and communal agendas, how wonderfully they all orchestrate under the influence of the nervous system, which is a little bit quicker but only just.. and is also made of cells... multicellularity is amazing isn't it? But so is singlecellularity for that matter.