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Jason Silvernail
16-10-2009, 05:24 AM
I attended a one day preconference course on the Selective Functional Movement Assessment by Kyle Kiesel PT, PhD and Phil Plisky PT, DSc.
You can check their website at http://www.kieselplisky.com/

As I understand it, the SFMA is an outgrowth of Gray Cook and Kyle Keisel's Functional Movement Screen or FMS.
FMS is aimed primarily at performance whereas the SFMA is aimed primarily for clinical applications.

There are seven basic movement tests you give to someone and based on their performance -scored Functional or Dysfunctional first and then Painful or Nonpainful. So for any given movement you could have Functional Nonpainful or Dysfunctional Painful or any permutation of those two basic ideas.

The thrust of the course was that after you have worked with someone and sorted out their clinical problem (or once local treatment is having an effect) you look at their global overall movement patterns and find a dysfunctional "nonpainful" movement to focus on correcting. This may or may not be directly relevant to their problem in-clinic, especially since it's a nonpainful movement pattern you're correcting. By correcting this movement pattern you are supposedly helping them move in a more biomechanically sound way and helping them be healthy in the long run.

There was a lot I liked about this course.

Pros:
-"You can only put fitness on top of dysfunction for so long before you get an injury" - great concept and I've seen this in the gym too many times to disagree with it. There really are better and worse ways to move mechanically and over time inefficient movement can stress some tissues beyond their tolerance.

-They emphasize that movement should be painfree when people do it and that moving with pain shouldn't be seen as a normal part of life. Even in a deep squat, it should be comfortable. Having been to the Middle East and seen 80 year old men sit like that for hours, I agree.

-the SFMA helps give a blueprint for how to complete the rehab process. I think often PTs are good at getting rid of pain and restoring basic movement but not very good about the finishing part of improving function - though that's often as much about visit caps as it is about the therapy given.

-They really had a nice "ectoderm" way to talk about manual therapy - they reinforced that nobody was breaking up connective tissue or anything like that and it was reflexive neurophysiological effects they were looking for. They talked about how you could do that with lots of different inputs - mob, manip, trigger point "work" (which they seemed to think a lot of), motor control exercise, etc. It was nice to see such frank discussion of that in a room full of manual therapists.

-They taught breathing - really taught the importance of relaxing trunk muscles and doing diaphragmatic breathing with trunk relaxation in many positions. They were concerned that the "core training" thing had created people with overactive muscles during tasks (and cited research) indicating that for many people, especially those with a history of back pain, too much muscle activity was the problem and not too little. I asked in a group setting if they felt cultural expectations of posturing and appearance was the problem, and they seemed to think that was plausible. They said that they worked with a few female clients who were concerned that breathing that way "made them look fat" from relaxing their diaphragm and breathing properly. Definitely comfort and function over appearance, and a nice dissent from some of the core training tomfoolery that is out there.

-There are several prospective cohort studies going on using the FMS to predict injury in athletes, especially at the NFL level. They are saying some of the prelim data indicates that a cutoff score on the FMS can predict who will get an injury of some kind. So there is some emerging data that indicates movement ability (almost entirely a question of motor control) can predict future problems, which really improves its construct validity.

-Good research base. They brought up emerging evidence about how things like neurogenic inhibition after injury can be problematic, the influence of previous injury on injury rate, and the use of motor control and proprioception training to treat traditional "sports" type injuries like chronic hamstring and ankle injuries.

-I think the SFMA is a good tool for improving someone's movement patterns in a way that has some good face validity and can leverage the skills and abilities of a manual therapist in a way that helps prep a person or athlete for better health (through possible reduced injury rate) and function.

Cons:
-They seemed big on doing movements related to their neurodevelopmental stages - like learning to roll and go from prone to quad to kneeling to standing. I never got a chance to really ask them how important they feel that progression is, so I can't say how much they weight it.

-Asymmetry is really important to them and they talk about the research implicating it in injury rates. I didn't have a chance to ask them how much of that they felt was really dysfunctional and how much was just the normal lateralization of function inherent to being human, and how to sort out which was which.

-They break the seven movements down rather in a detailed way with individual assessments to determine whether something was a Mobility problem or a Stability problem. More complex assessments almost certainly make reliability more difficult - but they did stress how they often would approach the same person in a slightly different way but be looking to help improve them in the same basic fashion. I think any manual therapist can understand where they are coming from there.

Well that was my basic impression. Hopefully I've been true to what they taught - this is just my impression and hope others will chime in with questions or if anyone else knows this system and can help correct me or clarify something, it's welcome.

Diane
16-10-2009, 06:27 AM
Sounds like you had fun and retained lots.
They seemed big on doing movements related to their neurodevelopmental stages - like learning to roll and go from prone to quad to kneeling to standing. I never got a chance to really ask them how important they feel that progression is, so I can't say how much they weight it.
That's pretty standard neuro treatment as I recall.
The rationale as I recall is to exercise the brain in pathways it has already learned, in the sequence it learned them in.

Jon Newman
16-10-2009, 01:08 PM
Thanks Jason.:thumbs_up

Barrett Dorko
16-10-2009, 01:33 PM
Wonderful job Jason. I wrote conference reports for years back in the day and often found the conversations had in the aisles of the exhibit hall contained the most compelling information. Had any of those?

I'm also wondering if you got any chance to speak personally to these guys and invite them here. Do they know we exist?

BB
16-10-2009, 04:33 PM
Thanks Jason. I went to the Cook and Keisel break out session last year and much of what you say sounds familiar although it sounds as if they've expanded thier research foundation a bit since then.

Here is a past thread (http://www.somasimple.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6394&highlight=AAOMPT) on Gray Cook's FMS.

John W
16-10-2009, 06:35 PM
-"You can only put fitness on top of dysfunction for so long before you get an injury" - great concept and I've seen this in the gym too many times to disagree with it. There really are better and worse ways to move mechanically and over time inefficient movement can stress some tissues beyond their tolerance.

I'd be interested to hear these guys talk about the distinction between "dysfunction" and "potential" or "capacity" in the context you describe above. For instance, Many people resolve to run a marathon. I'm convinced that certain people are simply not designed for such a grueling physical feat, and they end up over-training/loading a movement system that lacks the capacity to run 26 miles in one stretch. Their bodies/movement systems are not physically equipped to withstand such repetitive forces over the course of several hours.

There are more subtle versions of this. I once posted here about an 8-yeald-old girl who developed some foot and leg pain problems as she got more involved in ballet. She had markedly anteverted hips. She could lie prone and internally rotate her hips to the point that her ankles touch the surface. Ballet requires "turn-out," but her hips were simply not designed to achieve this, so her movement system had to compensate at the knees, ankles and feet. The result was pain and altered walking mechanics.

I think that a good ballet instructor would recognize this structural "variation," but in very young girls or boys, who may be hyper-flexible to begin with, it may not be readily apparent.

People and their parents shouldn't try to squeeze their round pegs into square holes, is the bottom line.

smith
16-10-2009, 07:07 PM
Nice Job Jason. The FMS seems good at picking out these motor control problems but less so at corrrecting them. The Indianopolis Colts use it the most and it does work for young guys. They win but with young guys. Young guys have less injuries then the older guys. If there rehab principals really helped a lot, the older athletes would overcome their movement problem and still be starters. This is not the case. Maybe their rehab principals would help the average guy but at the NFL level, previous injuries are simply too much to overcome. Thanks again

Jason Silvernail
17-10-2009, 05:54 AM
Don-
You know what NFL stands for, right?
Not For Long.

I'll await the results of some of these cohorts - for validity it really needs to have predictive power.

mrupe82
17-10-2009, 11:49 PM
Jason,

Are the seven SFMA movements the same as the FMS (functional movement screen) by Grey Cook?

mrupe82
17-10-2009, 11:54 PM
Heres is link about the FMS

http://www.functionalmovement.com/SITE/publications/downloads/FMSPB.pdf

Jason Silvernail
18-10-2009, 12:27 AM
Matt
no they are different. Hopefully I'll get an electronic handout I can load.

Erica
19-10-2009, 12:38 AM
Thanks for posting that Jason. It was a great synopsis! :thumbs_up
Erica

amacs
19-10-2009, 11:37 PM
Thanks for the precis Jason, sounds very similar to stuff on this side of the water by Kelvin Giles Movement Dynamics which is more athlete development centred and Mark Comerfords Kinetic Control, performance matrix stuff which is more clinically orentated

http://movementdynamics.com/

http://www.kineticcontrol.com/ http://www.performance-stability.com/documents/TheCoacharticle_000.pdf

I would have some reservations (as always - ho hum said the bear again)

ANdy

anoopbal
20-10-2009, 02:55 PM
ou can only put fitness on top of dysfunction for so long before you get an injury" - great concept and I've seen this in the gym too many times to disagree with it. There really are better and worse ways to move mechanically and over time inefficient movement can stress some tissues beyond their tolerance.

There is where I feel it can go either way. I have seen a lot of bad form waiting to get hurt but has never happened. I have seen people doing straight legged deadlift with a rounded back for years without any problems. And the same goes for behind the neck pulldowns.

AS I read in Butler's, one reason could be that as long as the movement is progressed gradually and without fear, the brain adapts to it. Or maybe it is just muscle specific; for example shoulder pain is too common in the gym.

What do you think, Jason?

Jason Silvernail
21-10-2009, 03:10 AM
Anoop-
I think that there is a "happy medium" here between biomechanical perfection in movement and biomechanically nightmarish movement.
Along this continuum, you may find people with varying degrees of pathological tissue (such as injury/degenerative changes), mechanically-based pain, and neural sensitivity. These people will have varying demands of their body depending on what their goals are. Sorting out the relevance of any movement problem related to those considerations is the art of our common professions.

I don't think everyone should move like the textbook but I know that in many cases ease and efficiency of movement often improve with coaching, training, and treatment.

For any one patient, knowing that full spectrum of movement might be a key to their ability to live painfree or to function with diminshed pain at a level consistent with their personal goals.

I've seen people do those rounded back deadlifts too and that's an example of where I think we have enough of a biomechanical rationale to try to change that pattern. I think anyone who toilets themselves should be able to squat with femurs parallel to the ground but going deeper (as FMS and SFMA advocates believe is important) may not be a useful thing to pursue depending on the individual, in my opinion.

bbettendorf
21-10-2009, 11:52 PM
Jason,

Can you clarify your comment about squatting below parallel? For a person with sufficient mobility and the absence of pathology, I can't think of a reason why someone would need to avoid deep squatting.

Brian

smith
22-10-2009, 12:36 AM
It seems like if you do a standard neurodynamic evaluation and a hot nerve kicks out all the other tests (FMS) aren't necessary. We know that the hot nerve will be the limiting factor in sports performance. If it's a sciatic nerve therefore special emphasis on the involved side of gastroc, hamstring and glutes. The involved side all along the motror neuron will have neuro deficits. Do a standard dynamic warm-up and spend some extra time and effort on the involoved motor neuron. To me, this is the best attack philosophy. This is from my experience to date.

Jason Silvernail
22-10-2009, 01:16 AM
Brian-
That was my point actually. Squatting below parallel may not be an important goal for them (therefore not worth pursuing) or a good idea (degenerative changes or history of injury or something like that).
It depends on the person, their goals, their individual injury and medical history, and whether the goal is worth the effort or is just to get a higher score on a movement assessment.

smith
22-10-2009, 06:48 PM
No doubt about JS, in football, performing deep squats/cleans is not as important as in wrestling. In wrestling the athlete must execute a standup from the mat. This requires more squat depth. for the football player hang-cleans are used and in wrestling power cleans/snatches.

anoopbal
24-10-2009, 04:50 PM
I think anyone who toilets themselves should be able to squat with femurs parallel to the ground but going deeper (as FMS and SFMA advocates believe is important) may not be a useful thing to pursue depending on the individual, in my opinion.

This is where things get murky.

From what I understood, the FMS screen is based on the assumtions that there are some fundamental primitive movements that make up the general motor programs. The specific motor programs are picked from these general programs.So if these general programs are messed up, the specific programs will be ruined too.

And I am not sure how much of the functionality factor came into play in selecting these tests.The deep squat test has you hold a dowel ovehead. Is that functional even for an athlete? And it indeed changes the CG and make the test a lot lot harder. It is also said to measure the thoracic flexibility and glenohumeral mobilty. And the lying leg raise test, the trunck stability push up have no real functionality. I even asked at the seminar that is it more functional to stand and raise your leg to test hamstring flexibilty than lying down and testing it.

I think there is some functional component, but it is mainly a flexibilty or mobility assessment.

And the study they always quote about football players is not indexed in pubmed. It is in one of the physical therapy journals though. I am not sure why it is not indexed. I haven't seen any other study on FMS besides that football one.

smith
24-10-2009, 05:30 PM
Interestingly, the overhead squat test with dowel orginated with the bulgarian lifting program 25years ago. I remember reading about it then Anoop. Lord knows where they got it from. For the Bulgarina weightlifters it was very functional. It is the crucial part of olympic lifting, the "catch" phase of the snatch. The Bulgarians would add the extra touch of, when the athlete was in the botom position, to try and knock them off balance. To test the athletes balance as well. The Bulgarian weightlifing coach's felt, it was one out of a hundred boys who could sucessfully accomplish this. The test was done even without a barbell. As you point out though, most athletes don't have to catch 400lb barebells in a deep squat position:shade:.

Jason Silvernail
24-10-2009, 05:44 PM
Anoop
I'd love that reference. Any journal in the PT world that I can think it would published in, is indexed.
I wasn't aware that that FMS data had been published.

anoopbal
24-10-2009, 06:13 PM
Hi Jason,

Here you go:

Kiesel K, Plisky P, Voight M. Can serious injury in professional football be predicted by a preseason Functional Movement Screen? North American Journal of Sports Physical Therapy. August 2007;2(3):147-158.

I cannot for some reason get into the journal site. The server seems to be having problems. But the study is indexed in the journal, not in pubmed even when you search for the author's name. Probably journal didn't get accepted or they never submitted the journal to get indexed.

And this is Kiesel K author page in pubmed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

There are two studies in press to be published in NSCA journal and scand jou of med sci sports. I willwait for those.

Jason Silvernail
24-10-2009, 06:28 PM
Thanks Anoop.
The NAJSM is a very new journal so it will be a while before it can be considered for indexing.
I look forward to seeing those in print.

anoopbal
24-10-2009, 06:35 PM
I was able to get in to the site. The abstract is free. The article is in this page

http://www.spts.org/najspt/archived%20issues/august%202007/

Diane
24-10-2009, 06:57 PM
Just a little story to throw in - about 15 years ago I attended a manual therapy course that had a slide of a guy whose rectum had herniated while in that extreme position. It was not pretty. He could not get out of that position until he was taken to emerge and dealt with. No wonder it's considered to be one of the best positions to give birth in.