Exercise vs. Recreation

[Nick]

I'm probably wading right back into it here, but I'm going to post this anyway. I may have discussed this here before, but I don't think it's ever really taken off and I think it is an important concept.

Before the arrows start flying again re: SuperSlow (http://www.somasimple.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4424)and everything that is wrong with it, let me begin by saying that the current state of the science demands revisions to the standard protocol as described by Hutchins (ie. heavier loads, shorter TULs, less concern about speed while still controlling for acceleration and form). Having said that, I think he has contributed two very important theoretical constructs to the world of exercise science - a world that is seriously lacking in foundational science and logic. His first contribution is defining exercise (http://www.sszrc.com/articles/The_First_Definition_of_Exercise.pdf). Now one could certainly argue that there may be a self-serving bias in doing so, but the point is made that it is difficult to discuss anything much less research it if basic terms have not been defined. You need look no farther than the 'ectodermal approach' thread to see how people simply talk past one another if they do not have a common language. The second contribution, which follows from the first, is distinguishing between exercise and recreation (http://www.sszrc.com/articles/Exercise_vs_Recreation.pdf). I used to be a big proponent of what I called "accidental exercise" - that gained simply from doing things I enjoy. Unfortunately, such an approach can not produce the benefits of a progressive and structured exercise program.

Check out the links. I think these ideas are worthy of discussion.

[Erica]

It is funny Nick, a few patients just this very week were telling me how they have been doing this Super Slow method and how it has made them "stronger". Not sure what makes it so distinguishable from just doing the 8 slow sets and a hold at the end for 10 secs (which is what they are doing). These clients pay ALOT of money here in New York for this and the workouts are 1/2 hour.
I have to look at this a little more closely because I don't know much about it but I don't think there is much more to it than that!
Erica

[Jason Silvernail]

Erica-
At the risk of Nick and I getting into it again, I'd suggest you check out that first link in his post above.
There was a bit of "talking past each other" in that thread as well - on both sides, I believe.
Anyway, it's a good introduction to the current models out there - I think you'll find it helpful.

[BB]

Hi Nick,

The author makes the claim that "SuperSlow is exemplary of the definition." However, since he defines exercise based on his assertions of superslow, the opposite could be said to be true as well. The definition makes it seem as though nothing but the superslow method could be called exercise.

[bobmfrptx]

Good topic. Read the threads and didn't see the answer so see below. I thought super slow was the military way of exercise in order to maximize strength and minimize time equals efficiency. I thought VO2max is the measure of cardiovascular fitness and maximal aerobic power. Different training involved with that. Here is the answer: 4 minutes a day... studies show 30% increase in strength and VO2 max in 6 weeks... Tony Robbins , Sly Stallone and Tom Cruise are users. Got to be true right. Tell me what you think about this contraption;
http://www.fastexercise.com/
Thanks for your opinions in advance.
Bob

At 4 minutes cpt code wouldn't work for billable service...would have to add warm up and cool down...just kidding.

[Jason Silvernail]

Bob, that site looks like MFR to me - it's in violation of physical law and what we know to be true of the human body, but some people still pay for it and convince others to pay as well.

[bobmfrptx]

Jason,
I didn't see any mention of fascia. How do you really feel? That aside, do you put any stock in to the research which has been done. I watched some of the DVD and the workout looks very demanding both for strength and endurance. The mechanics looks very bad for the lower back in the seated activity however. Are there faults with the way the studies were performed? Just curious. I figured with this machine and cengenics we as therapists might become obsolete!!

[Nick]

Yes Cory, I think that's exactly what he is saying. He states it very clearly that "SuperSlow is definitive for exercise." Then again, that is according to his definition. My purpose here is not to argue for or against a particular approach, but to point out the need to define one's terms in order to have meaningful discussion and investigation. A word that can mean anything means nothing at all.

[anoopbal]

Here is the answer: 4 minutes a day... studies show 30% increase in strength and VO2 max in 6 weeks... Tony Robbins , Sly Stallone and Tom Cruise are users. Got to be true right. Tell me what you think about this contraption;


Increase in aerobic and anaerobic endurance in 4 minutes is true. It's called the Tabata protocol and was devoloped for the Japanese national speed skating team. Participants were athletes but still increased their anerobic and aerobic capaicity by 14-28%!! And its not exactly 4 minutes- its 5 min warm up and 5 min coold own. So thats 14 min. The sessions were so gruelling that even the athletes couldnt compelete the full set of intervals at first. So its not for a beginner or a fitness enthusiast.

And to answer your question about the contraption: The study used a stationary bike!

Anoop

[TexasOrtho]

Increase in aerobic and anaerobic endurance in 4 minutes is true. It's called the Tabata protocol and was devoloped for the Japanese national speed skating team. Participants were athletes but still increased their anerobic and aerobic capaicity by 14-28%!! And its not exactly 4 minutes- its 5 min warm up and 5 min coold own. So thats 14 min. The sessions were so gruelling that even the athletes couldnt compelete the full set of intervals at first. So its not for a beginner or a fitness enthusiast.

And to answer your question about the contraption: The study used a stationary bike!

Anoop

Doesn't sound too unreasonable, but I'd like to see the data. A 30% increase in Vo2 in untrained individuals isn't otherworldly considering they are training for essentially 15 minutes a pop for six weeks. Were the speed skaters sprinters (anaerobes) or distance skaters (aerobes)? If they already had very high aerobic capacity, it would be impressive, but I imagine the number of subjects was pretty small to generalize. I'll need to check it out for sure.

Was it published anywhere I could get access to the study?

[anoopbal]

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1996 Oct;28(10):1327-30

Effects of moderate-intensity endurance and high-intensity intermittent training on anaerobic capacity and VO2max.

Tabata I, Nishimura K, Kouzaki M, Hirai Y, Ogita F, Miyachi M, Yamamoto K.
Department of Physiology and Biomechanics, National Institute of Fitness and Sports, Kagoshima Prefecture, Japan.

This study consists of two training experiments using a mechanically braked cycle ergometer. First, the effect of 6 wk of moderate-intensity endurance training (intensity: 70% of maximal oxygen uptake (VO2max), 60 min.d-1, 5 d.wk-1) on the anaerobic capacity (the maximal accumulated oxygen deficit) and VO2max was evaluated. After the training, the anaerobic capacity did not increase significantly (P > 0.10), while VO2max increased from 53 +/- 5 ml.kg-1 min-1 to 58 +/- 3 ml.kg-1.min-1 (P < 0.01) (mean +/- SD). Second, to quantify the effect of high-intensity intermittent training on energy release, seven subjects performed an intermittent training exercise 5 d.wk-1 for 6 wk. The exhaustive intermittent training consisted of seven to eight sets of 20-s exercise at an intensity of about 170% of VO2max with a 10-s rest between each bout. After the training period, VO2max increased by 7 ml.kg-1.min-1, while the anaerobic capacity increased by 28%. In conclusion, this study showed that moderate-intensity aerobic training that improves the maximal aerobic power does not change anaerobic capacity and that adequate high-intensity intermittent training may improve both anaerobic and aerobic energy supplying systems significantly, probably through imposing intensive stimuli on both systems.

[bobmfrptx]

Rod,
Check the website and look at the studies section...The above study is referenced regarding the ROM machine.
Anyone see this device before?
http://www.fastexercise.com/

[bernard]

This one may combine exercise and recreation. :D

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[oljoha]

Ugh, it says it "naturally re-balances" - there was nothing natural about that.

[Jason Silvernail]

For a good laugh, check out Ellen DeGeneres doing the Hawaii Chair on her show. It was hysterical - pointed out to obvious effect how ridiculous that device is...

And Ole said it - what' natural about being twirled around on a mechanical chair?

[Luke Rickards]

That (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQspIJnQLRE) was hilarious

[oljoha]

This: http://hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html is the most effective exercise regimen I've ever used. It doesn't take long. It doesn't require too much effort. And it brings results. Just ignore the pics of the bodybuilders if that stuff isn't your cup of tea. The downside - it requires quite a bit of planning. IMO most people doing strenght training are just killing themselves using workout schedules created for those either genetically gifted or chemically enhanced.

[anoopbal]

This: http://hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html is the most effective exercise regimen I've ever used. It doesn't take long. It doesn't require too much effort. And it brings results. Just ignore the pics of the bodybuilders if that stuff isn't your cup of tea. The downside - it requires quite a bit of planning. IMO most people doing strenght training are just killing themselves using workout schedules created for those either genetically gifted or chemically enhanced.

Yep. Used to be a regular in that forum years back. Frankly, Bryan Haycock was the guy who got some real science into the field of bodybuilding when it was all abt Mel Siff and russian texts. And I really appreciate Bryan for that.

But, the basic principles HSt principles like taking two weeks off bcos of RBE, doing metabolic work for raising "ERk" are not so clear in research though Bryan thinks otherwise. It's hard to come ou with anything practical when you get that deep into the muscle.

Anway still waiting for Bryans Book!


Anoop