extreme itching

[gerry]

Does anyone have any thoughts on itching? Is the perception of itching related to the perception of pain?

Several years ago, I had intense itching in a localized area on my left forearm. To the point where I would almost call it pain, but it was an intense itching. No topical medications made any difference. Eventually it stopped, but it was very worrisome to me. Last week, I felt it beginning in the same place, but it did not last. I wonder about some sort of irritation of a sensory nerve. I tried some skin stretching as per Diane's description just to see what happened. Not much difference that I could tell, but I wonder if I was doing it effectively because I was so uncomfortable.

Just wondering if anyone had any experience with clients and reports of extreme itching.

[emad]

gerry :

what is the exact spot of itching .

With pain and CNS sensitivity ,some patients complain that yes you are correct .

Cheers
Emad

[gerry]

Emad, it is a general question, so any responses are appreciated. In my case, the spot was/is about 6 - 7 cm distal to the lateral epicondyle on the dorsal aspect of the forearm. Thanks!

[emad]

Hi Gerry :

Really , science still can not reason ,speak plainly regarding many things or may be and i do not know .

Itching in persisant pain reporting is one of the problems which i have not read any research related .

There was discussions related on NOI in the past ;
http://www.noigroup.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000398#000006

http://www.noigroup.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000235#000000

http://www.noigroup.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000221#000000


Hope of value for you

Emad

[nari]

Hi Gerry

In addition to Emad's references, I found some possibly useful sites by googling, which you probably have done anyway. I know there are specific neuronal paths for itching, but the following may be interesting:

http://www.stevenharris.com/theory/036.htm

The withdrawal theory sounds logical.

Nari

[bernard]

Hi all,

Icthing is enabled by small C fibres that normally send "chemical irritation" messages.

Stretch may help but it seems preferable to apply light pressure on the area. Take you other hand and just "push" vertically on the itching spot (5/10 times).

[Diane]

Here's something recent (http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/525756/?sc=dwhn) on itching.

[gerry]

Thanks for all the links. I've read a lot of them, and continued searching. I think I actually came across the specific type of itch I was feeling. Brachioradial pruritus. Interestingly enough, many of the articles mention the neurological component being possible cervical spine problems. One article mentioned changes in the sensory nerve fibers in the arm. Cool stuff.

Thanks again for all the info!

[Diane]

I spotted this blogpost today, about extreme itch; Morgellons Disease: A hallucinatory parasitosis due to low NO? (http://daedalus2u.blogspot.com/2008/02/morgellons-disease-hallucinatory.html) today. It's a quite long, interesting, entire physiological hypothesis on itch, has lots of references (it was news to me that skin can absorb oxygen from the atmosphere... maybe I need to look for corroborating evidence for that..). The author (Daedalus2u) shows up frequently on Science-Based Medicine blog in the comments section.

[oljoha]

There is no specific itching area in the brain. Could it be that itching like pain is an interpretation of peripheral activity? Could itching (in some cases) be just in ones brain?

Consider this: Scratch Skin, Soothe Brain? (http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20080131/scratch-skin-soothe-brain?src=RSS_PUBLIC)

[Diane]

Could it be that itching like pain is an interpretation of peripheral activity?
Ole, could you explain how you think "pain is an interpretation of peripheral activity"?

People who are addicted to crack etc, scratch holes through their skin. They end up with huge self-inflicted wounds that get infected and heal badly, if at all, with huge scars. I was intrigued by this guy's ideas, because it kinda makes sense to me that if the brain isn't down regulating properly (e.g., because drug use is interfering with the brain's ability to communicate inside itself via neurotransmitters, drugs are sitting in all the available receptor sites, etc.), skin sensation (of all sorts) could become ectopic. And maddening.

[pht3k]

it was news to me that skin can absorb oxygen from the atmosphere... maybe I need to look for corroborating evidence for that...

There is a story i heard more than once about a guy from where i am born.
Must be an urban legend, but here's the story anyway:
The guy was an autochton and were very very dirty when he got to the hospiltal.
(old dirt... accumulated dirt --- not dirt because he fell in mud for exemple)
So the nurses washed him with brushes strongly in a bath to remove the tick layer of dirt.
When he got out of the bath he died.
The supposed cause is: too much O2 from the skin!

[Diane]

What is an "autochton", pht3k?
Here is the link about skin O2 uptake (http://jp.physoc.org/cgi/content/full/538/3/985). It seems so bizarre. Yet the article seems real enough..
There's lots of stuff out there about a recent study done with mice (http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2008/417/3). Amphibians can breathe through their skin, but mammals?

[nari]

pht3k,

Why was he admitted to hospital in the first place? Perhaps that had more to do with his dying....

Nari

[oljoha]

Ole, could you explain how you think "pain is an interpretation of peripheral activity"?

Peripheral activity - afferent activity in nociceptive nerve fibers (under normal circumstances) reaching the brain. Brain interprets as pain if it finds the input threatening.

[pht3k]

Diane, sorry for my bad english. from babelfish online translation autochtone=indigenous.
Nari, i dont know. Very possible.

[nari]

pht3k,

Your English is fine! It just means we have to work a bit harder to interpret, and that's good for the brain, anyway.

I had thought 'autochon' might mean a mechanic (somone who fixes up cars) but the fact this man was indigenous/First nationer may have something to do with the way he was 'treated' - ie forcibly washed by strange women - and hence his demise.

Nari