Coercion

[BB]

In my treatments, I now fairly consistently see 2 out of the 4 "characteristics of correction." Warming and softening. It will happen at times throughout an entire extremity, sometimes more localized.

Despite how I have tried presenting it, they don't get spontenaity or effortlessness of movement along with the warmth/softening.

I try to present it in a way that does not say "I want you to move!" So, what usually ends up happening is that they don't move. They just relax and enjoy the warmth and softening. Or they assume that I want them to move and it is therefore coercive.:embarasse

I realize that the problem is likely a matter of coercion. I'm probably still being coercive, although not in a way that has entered my awareness. Maybe I just still have walls that need to break down. I definately need to take Barrett's class.

Is this coercion, in someone who genuinely wants to allow movement vs. choreograph it, and who has done the effort of research and reading, just so engrained that I don't know that I'm doing it?

Oh well. I guess 2 out of 4 ain't bad....for now.

Cory

[nari]

Cory,

Warmth and softening indicate the patient is responding.

Have you tried "Where do you want to go"? or "What do you want to do?"
This absolves the therapist from coercion, it is just a simple question.

If I do it on myself (I'm not seeing patients at present) I still need to ask myself the second of the above suggestions. I kid myself I am talking to my nonconscious....:)

It makes for better understanding if you can do Barrett's course; despite the reading, I could not really understand what was happening until I did the course. I think ideomotion has to be experienced to appreciate its value, and the amazing effortlessness and ease of movement.

Nari

[Barrett Dorko]

I think Nari is right. There's something about experiencing ideomotion while being handled by another that is extremely helpful for an understanding of this work.

I will never however insist that anyone needs to attend my course in order to get this. Try this: Let your patients move - don't make them. Think about how you let others talk and the proper attitude on your part will emerge. Touch another and then do nothing. Wait no less than three seconds. If after that you're not getting what you want, touch another spot.

Spontaneity simply means that we're moving in an unplanned way; at least, not consciously planned. Effortlessness means that it takes more work to hold still than move and that we don't have to overcome our desire not to do what we're doing.

[Baecker]

hi cory i exactly face the same problem. there is no movement or sometimes just some twitching of muscle, like the same if they go to sleep.

they get warming and softening and then often they fall asleep. why they fall asleep they supposed to move lol.

i am not sure yet what i am doing wrong.

the theory of barret's sc makes so much sense but i can't get it yet into practise. but i am not giving up yet.

[BB]

Hi Baecker,

I'm now convinced that my short-comings here are in handling. While at Diane's class, I asked her and Eric to show me SC. As soon as Diane's hands were on me, I wanted to move. It was more of an urge than just following an idea. I had to actively resist it to keep from moving until she was done telling me what she was doing. It was very clear. So, when I place my hands on someone and invite them to move, and they give me a look like, "what do you mean," and I get this look consistently, I have to assume I'm not handling in a way that causes this urge to surface.

Cory

[Diane]

I had to actively resist it to keep from moving until she was done telling me what she was doing. Which suggests to me that I'm still being too long-winded. :thumbs_do
Or that I should keep my hands off until after I'm finished talking.:secret: :angel:

[Jason Silvernail]

Well, I would agree with Cory in that my problems with SC were in the method of handling (as well as too much explaining).

I actually am getting surprising effortless movement from the patient, but nobody seems to be feeling much warmth. But they seem to be doing pretty well overall, though learning to let go is difficult.
J

[Baecker]

thx cory,

this is puzzling for me and which i don't understand yet fully. it seems with some therapists ideomotion is easily elicited and some therapists do something somehow wrong. i belong to the latter group. argghh

i mean its quite discouraging if the patient looks at you like, are you going to start to do something or what?

i had a patient today with a stiff neck and tried sc, holding first the temples, patient was supine, no movement. then i tried to put my hands at occiput, still no movement then i gave up and did what i normally do. i hold the positions like 10 secs each in hope of some movement.

well tommorrow is another day...

[christophb]

i mean its quite discouraging if the patient looks at you like, are you going to start to do something or what?

I had this problem after my initial success with SC (and I'm just starting to come around again). I find there is (or can be) all sorts of non-verbal communication going on while you perform SC. This is in what the pt tries to tell you, what you try to tell the pt, what you think the pt is trying to tell you, what the pt thinks you are trying to tell them... this may be unnecessarily complex and the trick for me was to not attend to any of the above or make sense of it, but make space for them to move, really, as everybody say's, you do nothing. If you attend to their questioning looks, there can be an anxiety to try something, which seems to make it more difficult for them to move. At least this is my experience... my apologies if this is an inaccurate observation.

Chris

[nari]

Chris, I think you are spot on.

We can quite unwittingly pass on some sort of expectation that we as therapists will create the movement.

Baeker,

You mentioned 'holding' the temples; did you mean holding or touching? If you provide any sort of support or even the slightest resistance, which is likely to happen if you use both hands, instinctive movement is unlikely to occur.
I would try the patient in sitting, one hand, and the lightest of contact; contact being the operative word. As a hovercraft does at the start of its movement, in contact with the ground/water, but not into hover phase. Your hand should feel ready for take-off but not quite. Or a feather on the surface before it sinks..
That's my notion, anyway.

Nari

[Barrett Dorko]

My last admonition to each class is, "Put your hand on a patient and empty the room...and let their imagination take them where they need and want to go."

Not that I think saying this actually works or anything, but I keep saying it anyway.

[Nick]

I've been thinking about Barrett's analogy of letting someone speak. It has brought to mind how subtle coercion may be. The first thing that is important for any type of expression is likely the environment. The person's expectations are also important. They assume we are judging them and want to be sure they are doing what we want them to do. They are anxious about doing the wrong thing. They are also judging us and whether we will be able to 'do anything' to help them.

Is the first step getting them to feel?

A listening attitude is also essential. This makes me think about how often I want to jump in when someone is talking. Especially those people who get started and it seems like they will never stop. Sometimes what I have to say seems so much more important. Maybe SC is just like letting them tell their story.

Nick

[Bas]

Barrett, Nick: here is a crucial part of the difficulty with the acceptance of such a concept as SC and developing a profound "feel" for ideomotor motion. The required internal 'quiet", the listening without judgement, without immediate deductive processes kicking in, the Zen-state of not-doing - are all rather far removed from the speed, aggression, "decisive action" and assertion of self as well as the "professional" urge to help, which all seem so prevalent in our societies.
It was the hardest to learn. It is the hardest to maintain.

And Barrett, indeed: keep saying it anyway. Some seeds take longer to germinate - especially when tossed in to such poorly balanced soil: modern PTs. Just remember me.....

Talking about poor soil: I have tried to find out what interest I can generate for a SC course here in southern Ontario over the last 6-7 months. Even with the help of the internet and taking into account that a lot of people will say "yes" but not follow through - a grand total of 12 have indicated an "interest".... It is a hotbed of exercise, modalities and manipulation here. A lot of coercion....

[Barrett Dorko]

Bas,

I know that if someone were to watch me work they'd perceive a zen-like presence and contemplative attitude. From my perspective this isn't necessarily the case and I say that with some confidence knowing what I might be thinking of instead of the patient. Imagine the mind of Homer Simpson for instance. He is after all one of my heroes.

I can take any class of thirty therapists, lecture for two hours, demonstrate briefly and then simply insist that they put their hands on another as I have. Within a minute or two virtually all demonstrate that they already possess enough "skill" necessary to sense and promote corrective motion in their partner. What they lack is an understanding of this; an understanding that can only grow through prolonged effort. It's that second part I can't teach or demonstrate and only rarely inspire - if ever.

Twelve, huh? That's twelve more than I've ever found in Northeast Ohio. Of course, I've only been here since '79.

[Bas]

Barrett, yes: 12. But they only "expressed" an interest - this usually means about 1/3 will actually follow through - making it a grand total of 4 likely candidates....
With regards to the Zen-state: my understanding of the promotion of corrective motion requires a mind set away from the "usual" therapeutic mode. My experience seems to indicate that the PT hands tend to be so easily influenced by what the mind/brain/person is perceiving through those hands, and thus easily feeds back to coercion - for me, it means I have to get internally quiet. I have yet to find a suitable alternative mode - internal dialogue with Patch Adams perhaps?