Aging

[gary s]

Hi all,
I'm posting this link http://www.plumpub.com/info/Articles/art_mancusoage.htm for the group to read and comment on(if you desire). This is the same Ted Mancuso who so graciously contributed his expertise to Barrett's "submission hold" thread a while back. It has quite a bit of martial arts terminology, but I think that his message gets through. "The Rapture of Maturity"--Kung Fu style.

[Synergy]

Here's the 'clickable' link for those too lazy to copy and paste. ;)

Age and Kung Fu (http://www.plumpub.com/info/Articles/art_mancusoage.htm)

[gary s]

Thank you Chris.

[Barrett Dorko]

Consigliori,

There are a number of lines in here about the worth of gentle, persistent practice that I intend to ste...I mean "quote," if I can just memorize them well enough.

Whenever a new patient begins by lamenting that they "are just getting old" I remind them after the first visit that they are now moving easier and with less discomfort despite the fact that they are now an hour older. I try not to say this in a fashion that irritates them but that doesn't always work out.

Maybe I should practice that.

Nah.

[christophb]

Thanks for the article Gary. It reflects everything I have learned/am learning with my practice.

Barrett, when I first started doing SC, I have to say it was slightly similar to my tai chi practice. There were no fancy techniques, just 1 "form" that required gentle persistent practice and minimal expectations. Much like letting the art "surprise" you as stated in the article. It took a while for me to recognize this in tai chi (almost six years), however I saw the similarity in SC and knew that it would take practice on myself to grow in "doing nothing." You always say that SC is easy to do an anyone can do it, this is true. But the challenge is not doing it (making others aware of ideomotion), but being comfortable with it and letting it grow... ask anyone who has done tai chi or meditation, it takes a lot of work to do nothing, I am sure you know this. There are times when I practice SC and just feel uncomfortable, it takes some effort to observe this and move through it. I am sure my patients are grateful for this as I see them grow more comfortable as I do. I wonder how many students just stop at the point of being uncomfortable in themselves and give up SC for that reason. Just wondering, it has been on my mind for a few weeks.

Chris

[Diane]

Chris, just a little tip; a surefire way of overcoming discomfort in yourself is to breathe anyway (in spite of it), and slow down a wee bit (..although I don't know how much slower one could actually do nothing). I guess one can always improve doing nothing within self as well as outwardly by letting go of more tension. Then some more. Then a bit more.

Gary, I loved the article, especially this part: They should substitute another move and then concentrate on what they can probably do better than the young guys, things such as continuity. Or keeping the intent. Basically as you get older in Kung Fu you have to substitute mature standards for developmental standards.
And this part: Kung Fu is such a mental process and people have such a misunderstanding about it. You can literally do Kung Fu in bed. Now, that's my kind of exercise.

[Barrett Dorko]

Ian from Scotland has this to add:

practising via visualisation --ties in with the mirror neuron files that Jon posted ......
I think there is a lot of congruency with marital arts training and the current information gleaned from the neurosciences ie central generator theory and the mirror stuff .......People get put off with the esoteric philsophy and language but there is an incredible amount that could be utilised clinically and practically.....Far more relevant than a lot of isolationist exercise regimes for instance .....I bet Mel Siff would have approved .

[nari]

I loved the typo 'marital arts training'. ;)

Certainly an all-encompassing way of improving function in the brain/body.


Nari

[gary s]

Ian,
I agree with you 100%. People forget that Tai Chi for instance is really Tai Chi Chuan--Grand Ultimate Fist(or Boxing). You learn a whole new set of body mechanics that enables you to successfully manage an adversary. Nothing metaphysical about that--just applied physics. Martial arts has so much to offer in terms of a rehab modality. Instead, as you said, therapists continue to the old meme of isolated non functional exercises.
I never cease to be amused/amazed by some of my elderly homecare patients. Balance is shot, movement lacks grace, but the men ask for an exercise that will firm up their biceps, the women, their sagging granny triceps. And the therapists comply. Talk about pervasive cultural influence.!

[Jon Newman]

Aging? Any monkey can do it (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5333211).

[Jon Newman]

Is this an absurd cartoon (drawn by Hugh Macleod, creator of The gapingvoid (http://www.gapingvoid.com/))? I mean look at his posture.

[gary s]

John,

Couldn't resist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzDyqkVmL6Y&search=seinfeld

[Jon Newman]

Most people beware the ides of March. I've learned to beware links with the referencing phrase "I couldn't resist" (laugh).

Since I come from the town that can boast "The world's largest trivia contest" (http://www.triviahalloffame.com/wwsp.htm), what is the name of the episode in which we learn Newman is a postal worker through the following dialogue.

George: Let me ask you something... What do you do for a living, Newman?
Newman: I'm a United States postal worker.
George: Aren't those the guys that always go crazy and come back with a gun and shoot everybody?
Newman: Sometimes.
Jerry: Why is that?
Newman: Because the mail never stops. It just keeps coming and coming and coming. There's never a letup, It's relentless. Every day it piles up more and more, but the more you get out, the more it keeps coming. And then the bar code reader breaks. And then it's Publisher's Clearinghouse day.

[Jon Newman]

I never did mention that I enjoyed the article Gary. I'm sure you are aware that Tai Chi (as the subject of a research report) appeared in the Feb. 2006 PT Journal.

I think an interesting study would be to study the effects of Tai Chi on "helplessness". The article you posted made me think that one of potential benefits of Tai Chi may be related to this important characteristic.

[gary s]

I think an interesting study would be to study the effects of Tai Chi on "helplessness". The article you posted made me think that one of potential benefits of Tai Chi may be related to this important characteristic.[/QUOTE]

John,
Could you elaborate?

[Jon Newman]

Hi Gary,

I'm off to bed so I can expand on my thoughts more tomorrow. Quickly, the general thought I had is that those researching Tai Chi might try to determine its effect on the characteristic of helplessness, the presence of which is associated with negative outcomes of various sorts. I interpreted the article you posted as addressing helplessness, at least in an indirect way.

[Jon Newman]

Good morning Gary,

I think the following Q/A got the closest to directly addressing "helplessness" but it seemed to me the article addressed this in general.

Q: Would you say that getting good for an older person means getting healthier?

A: No, I would say that getting good always means finding a passion. Finding a way to express that passion and explore that passion. And you will get healthier. For instance, let’s take the martial aspects. I teach people in their sixties to do the martial part. Why? To enliven them. Because when they move in that way – I’m not talking about moving hard, but I am talking about moving efficiently – their whole sense of their liveliness, of their ability to not be restrained by age is incredible.

Here's one article that explores "helplessness" and why I think it would be helpful to establish a link between Tai Chi and this characteristic.

Clin J Pain. 2006 Mar-Apr;22(3):245-51.

The role of helplessness, fear of pain, and passive pain-coping in chronic pain patients.

Samwel HJ, Evers AW, Crul BJ, Kraaimaat FW.

OBJECTIVES: The goal of this study was to examine the relative contribution of helplessness, fear of pain, and passive pain-coping to pain level, disability, and depression in chronic pain patients attending an interdisciplinary pain center. METHODS: One hundred sixty-nine chronic pain patients who had entered treatment at an interdisciplinary pain center completed various questionnaires and a pain diary. RESULTS: Helplessness, fear of pain, and passive pain-coping strategies were all related to the pain level, disability, and depression. When comparing the contribution of the predictors in multiple regression analyses, helplessness was the only significant predictor for pain level. Helplessness and the passive behavioral pain-coping strategies of resting significantly predicted disability. The passive cognitive pain-coping strategy of worrying significantly predicted depression. CONCLUSIONS: These findings indicate a role for helplessness and passive pain-coping in chronic pain patients and suggest that both may be relevant in the treatment of pain level, disability, and/or depression.

[ian s]

jon --- i think your article was relevant to pain clinics where the information that is in the article is often ignored .
Medically led clinics that i have seen favour 'intervention' and its only when the course of acupuncture has run its course that anything else is tried -- usually physio !

[nari]

I've known only one pain clinic reasonably intimately and the issues of helplessness, fear of pain and passive-pain coping are dealt with quite comprehensively at the multidisciplinary level, where every discipline has thoughts on every aspect, not just 'their' fenced area of 'expertise'.

Simply, input in the way of interventions by a doctor, physio, OT, psych, and nurse who all work on similar wavelengths will either enhance helplessness ('all you wonderful people helping me') or hasten self-efficacy because the patient hears the same story from all. This rarely happens outside a team, where differing opinions and beliefs are erratically rampant and confusing.
Sorting out which person will react effectively to the input is the tricky bit.


Nari

[Jon Newman]

A monkey (ok, ok, Chimp), a cartoon and now Martin Sheen (http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2006/0408/2314898038HM1MARTINSHEEN.html)

I'm wondering if it would be appropriate to say that age constrains but does not restrain?

What do you think?

[nari]

Age does not restrain anything..depends on the culture, I guess.

My email friend in CT who was a most interesting fellow, took up horse riding for the first time at age 83. Not many would try that...

I don't watch West Wing but I think Martin Sheen was the protagonist in my favourite movie of all time Apocalypse Now.
I don't take any notice of actors - only their characters in movies. To me that is what counts: the message, not the medium.
(no, that's incorrect..I am a devoted James Dean fan). :)

Nari

[Jon Newman]

Apparently that thing about constraint didn't want to leave me alone as I stumbled across this as I was looking for something else altogether.

Soc Sci Med. (javascript:AL_get(this, 'jour', 'Soc Sci Med.');) 2005 Jul;61(2):431-41.Related Articles, (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=15893057) Links (javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu15893057);)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query/egifs/http:--linkinghub.elsevier.com-ihub-images-PubMedLink.gif (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/lofref.fcgi?PrId=3048&uid=15893057&db=pubmed&url=http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0277-9536(04)00650-1)
Managing constraint: the experience of people with chronic pain.

Miles A (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Abstract&term=%22Miles+A%22%5BAuthor%5D), Curran HV (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Abstract&term=%22Curran+HV%22%5BAuthor%5D), Pearce S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Abstract&term=%22Pearce+S%22%5BAuthor%5D), Allan L (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Abstract&term=%22Allan+L%22%5BAuthor%5D).

Department of Psychology, University College London, Gower Street, London WC1E 6BT, UK. a.miles@ucl.ac.uk

This study describes the experience of people with chronic pain. Using the method of grounded theory, 29 chronic pain sufferers were interviewed at an outpatient pain clinic. A model depicting the basic social psychological process of maintaining a normal life through constraint was developed. This process revolved around people's perception of the constraints imposed by pain: bodily constraint (constraint on the body and its relationship to the environment); activity constraint (the constraint on what people could do); and identity constraint (the constraint on what people could be). The degree to which pain had challenged what people had previously accepted as 'normal' was illustrated through their evaluation of the impact of pain. The conclusion of this process of evaluation reflected how people coped with the constraints of pain-whether they were assimilated, accommodated, confronted or subverted. In assimilation, the constraints were absorbed and normal life maintained. In accommodation, the constraints were accepted and normal life re-defined. In confrontation, the constraints were rejected and pre-pain identities and activities pursued despite leading to increased pain levels. In subversion, attempts were made to retain pre-pain identities, and although pain levels were minimized, activities were altered to a significant degree. The limitations imposed by pain often form the focus of people's coping efforts, rather than the pain per se. The desire to retain pre-pain 'normal' lifestyles may underlie people's use of coping strategies that exacerbate pain intensity and pain-related disability. Future research needs to explore both the relationship between adjustment to pain and adjustment to the restrictions associated with ageing, and the role of body techniques and identity management in adjustment to pain in order to understand factors which may promote pain acceptance.